What shot am I playing?

[Banchory Buddha]

Here's one that happened to me a few weeks back, I genuinely don't know the answer, but I NR'd because of it (on a poor one anyway)



14th hole, hit drive into the boondie on the right. Callaway 1. Walks up, playing partner finds Callaway 1 right where we thought I'd gone, don't check further as most of ball is hidden (oops).

I hit the ball, funny feeling, where did it go? It's 3 yards ahead of me, it's an empty shell that's been run over by the mower. As I say, I NR'd there and then, however....

Can I begin looking again, I haven't spent any time looking for my original?

Have I played a stroke? The ball isn't a ball at all, it's a hollow shell.

Can I still go back to the tee and play 3 off the tee, or is it now 4?

 

[Bdill93]

I reckon you're stuffed the moment you hit the wrong ball.... Your mistake in not checking it fully!

Rulefan or similar will be along shortly with the actual ruling!

 

[Banchory Buddha]

I reckon you're stuffed the moment you hit the wrong ball.... Your mistake in not checking it fully!

Rulefan or similar will be along shortly with the actual ruling!

100%

Not a mistake I usually make, but it was exactly where we thought, right make and number, a dafty moment, relieved to find it in spot where you're normally goosed, then DOH!

 

[Orikoru]

I reckon you're stuffed the moment you hit the wrong ball.... Your mistake in not checking it fully!

Rulefan or similar will be along shortly with the actual ruling!

I wouldn't count it as hitting the wrong ball since it wasn't actually a ball anymore. I mean, would it count if you took a swing at a mushroom or a dandelion?

I would still count the time you spent looking for it though. I don't know why you NRed either, even if you count it as hitting the wrong ball it's just a two shot penalty, find your correct ball and carry on? Or if you don't find the ball you go back to the tee? There was no need to NR immediately because you thought you'd hit the wrong ball was there?

 

[LincolnShep]

When is a ball not a ball, that is the question.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

I wouldn't count it as hitting the wrong ball since it wasn't actually a ball anymore. I mean, would it count if you took a swing at a mushroom or a dandelion?

I would still count the time you spent looking for it though. I don't know why you NRed either, even if you count it as hitting the wrong ball it's just a two shot penalty, find your correct ball and carry on? Or if you don't find the ball you go back to the tee? There was no need to NR immediately because you thought you'd hit the wrong ball was there?

I was on a poor score, playing partner had gone to his own ball, and as per query above I literally didn't know where I stood. If my score was OK/Good I'd have called partner back to discuss, but it was one of those days so I left it.

I would have tended towards what you've said, it's not a stroke as it isn't a ball, and gone back to tee to play 3, however whether that is right is the need that drove this topic

 

[Colin L]

Here's one that happened to me a few weeks back, I genuinely don't know the answer, but I NR'd because of it (on a poor one anyway)



14th hole, hit drive into the boondie on the right. Callaway 1. Walks up, playing partner finds Callaway 1 right where we thought I'd gone, don't check further as most of ball is hidden (oops).

I hit the ball, funny feeling, where did it go? It's 3 yards ahead of me, it's an empty shell that's been run over by the mower. As I say, I NR'd there and then, however....

Can I begin looking again, I haven't spent any time looking for my original?

Have I played a stroke? The ball isn't a ball at all, it's a hollow shell.

Can I still go back to the tee and play 3 off the tee, or is it now 4?

Sorry to say that like the club you played the broken ball with, you're shafted. You played a wrong ball. 2 stroke penalty and you must continue with the correct ball. Yes, you have the normal 3 minutes from starting to search for it (the time spent playing the wrong ball doesn't count). Find it in time and play your 4th shot or it's back to the tee playing your 5th shot (drive =1, wrong ball = 2, lost ball = 1).

I don't at the moment have a reference for that ruling in the current Rules but it was Decision 15/3 pre-2019. I'll check it out later if no-one else has done so.

 

[NearHull]

Sorry to say that like the club you played the broken ball with, you're shafted. You played a wrong ball. 2 stroke penalty and you must continue with the correct ball. Yes, you have the normal 3 minutes from starting to search for it (the time spent playing the wrong ball doesn't count). Find it in time and play your 4th shot or it's back to the tee playing your 5th shot (drive =1, wrong ball = 2, lost ball = 1).

I don't at the moment have a reference for that ruling in the current Rules but it was Decision 15/3 pre-2019. I'll check it out later if no-one else has done so.

I agree with the above but just wanted to add to the “is it a ball or not a ball”. - The intention was to make a stroke , therefore it should be considered a ball.

 

[Orikoru]

I agree with the above but just wanted to add to the “is it a ball or not a ball”. - The intention was to make a stroke , therefore it should be considered a ball.

Is that still true if you hit a mushroom that you mistook for a ball?

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Is that still true if you hit a mushroom that you mistook for a ball?

 

[LincolnShep]

Is that still true if you hit a mushroom that you mistook for a ball?

Shoulda gone to Specsavers.

 

[Bdill93]

Is that still true if you hit a mushroom that you mistook for a ball?

If someone genuinely believes its their ball and hits it, why is it not a stroke?

 

[Colin L]

Sorry to say that like the club you played the broken ball with, you're shafted. You played a wrong ball. 2 stroke penalty and you must continue with the correct ball. Yes, you have the normal 3 minutes from starting to search for it (the time spent playing the wrong ball doesn't count). Find it in time and play your 4th shot or it's back to the tee playing your 5th shot (drive =1, wrong ball = 2, lost ball = 1).

I don't at the moment have a reference for that ruling in the current Rules but it was Decision 15/3 pre-2019. I'll check it out later if no-one else has done so.

It has come through from that Decision as an Interpretation of the Definition of a wrong ball.
Interpretation Wrong Ball/1 - Part of Wrong Ball Is Still Wrong Ball
If a player makes a stroke at part of a stray ball that he or she mistakenly thought was the ball in play, he or she has made a stroke at a wrong ball and Rule 6.3c applies.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

If anyone did not know it before, this once again shows that golf rules are brutal .

This is such a good section of the forum. I frequently shake my head at the rule outcomes but they are what they are. It is a great learning section.

 

[Orikoru]

If someone genuinely believes its their ball and hits it, why is it not a stroke?

Definition of stroke: "The forward movement of the club made to strike the ball." If there's no ball there's no stroke then?

 

[Bdill93]

Definition of stroke: "The forward movement of the club made to strike the ball." If there's no ball there's no stroke then?

But you thought it was a ball..

 

[Orikoru]

But you thought it was a ball..

I also think I'm putting it on the green half the time but I'm usually wrong. My thoughts are not the issue here.

 

[Bdill93]

I also think I'm putting it on the green half the time but I'm usually wrong. My thoughts are not the issue here.

But they are, you thought the mushroom was the ball you had in play.

Your intention is to play a stroke of a ball - one that you deemed to be your ball. The fact that it mysteriously becomes a mushroom is neither here nor there!

What a brilliant debate this is

 

[LincolnShep]

I'm inclined to agree that if you think it's a ball; then it's a ball, even if it turns out to be a mushroom, an egg, a pebble, or anything else. Presumably, if you hit a mushroom you're also playing a non-conforming ball. Would love to know if the rules cover this. I'm also intrigued to know if Orikoru has actually played a mushroom instead of his ball.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

It has come through from that Decision as an Interpretation of the Definition of a wrong ball.
Interpretation Wrong Ball/1 - Part of Wrong Ball Is Still Wrong Ball
If a player makes a stroke at part of a stray ball that he or she mistakenly thought was the ball in play, he or she has made a stroke at a wrong ball and Rule 6.3c applies.

Good answer. So if I'd carried on I'd have ended up playing 5 off the tee (assuming I didn't subsequently find original ball)

I think NR was fine here

Good to know tho, cheers