What makes "A Good Golf Hole"

[Deleted Member 1156]

That's not what I would call a risk-reward hole,at that yardage you have to be a good driver of the ball to reach the green so even downwind to drive the ball over 300 yards would count most of us out, so not much risk-reward there.imo

TBF a 300 yard drive downwind on a hard running links is very achievable for a lot of players. I've hit irons close to that distance in those circumstances before.

 

[Curls]

id also add that good shots get rewarded and bad shots get fairly punished

for me aesthetics matter a lot hence why im not a fan of blind holes and would never call one a good hole (albeit i know others will disagree)

Fully agree with both points - not a fan of blind shots at any point but especially to a green, I realise some will say it's a skill that is required and that's fair enough but it doesn't add to my enjoyment of that hole/approach in the least.

 

[Rlburnside]

TBF a 300 yard drive downwind on a hard running links is very achievable for a lot of players. I've hit irons close to that distance in those circumstances before.

Think its 331 of the Whites even downwind with a lot of run that would rule it out for the majority of players so in my eyes it's not a risk-reward hole as this kind of hole should encompass most players not just the big hitters.

 

[patricks148]

That's not what I would call a risk-reward hole,at that yardage you have to be a good driver of the ball to reach the green so even downwind to drive the ball over 300 yards would count most of us out, so not much risk-reward there.imo

what do you call risk reward then?

 

[Deleted member 1147]

It's too hard to describe a good hole design because all holes are different in so many ways, but if you split holes by par and by type (short/long par 4's, risk/reward holes, long slog or accuracy being paramount) you get more out of a course as a whole.
I reckon a good course has variety:
a couple of par 3's where short or mid irons are required & a couple where long irons/hybrids are required,
some short, risk reward par 4's, some mid length par 4's & some long slog par 4's
a couple of par 5's reachable in two and some where you have to lay up your 2nd shot but must have to think about how & where.

Where you have some of everything you tend to have a pretty well designed course, but too many of one type and it becomes monotonous and you (or certainly, I) don't enjoy it so much.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

what do you call risk reward then?

Where you have to make a decision before you tee off - go for the easy option of lay up followed by approach and hope for accuracy & good putting to get par or better, or, where you "go for it" off the tee, thus bringing bogey or double into the equation as well as a very good birdie/eagle opportunity.

The latter is much more fun (until you have to go looking for your ball)

 

[patricks148]

Where you have to make a decision before you tee off - go for the easy option of lay up followed by approach and hope for accuracy & good putting to get par or better, or, where you "go for it" off the tee, thus bringing bogey or double into the equation as well as a very good birdie/eagle opportunity.

The latter is much more fun (until you have to go looking for your ball)

Sounds like a perfect description of the 1st at RD to me:rofl:

 

[Rlburnside]

what do you call risk reward then?

A hole that is risk/ reward for most players not just the big hitters, the first at Dornoch is surely only a risk/reward hole in some conditions in the summer and downwind so I wouldn't class this as a risk/reward hole.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

A hole that is risk/ reward for most players not just the big hitters, the first at Dornoch is surely only a risk/reward hole in some conditions in the summer and downwind so I wouldn't class this as a risk/reward hole.

When playing a links the 'standard' rules very much go out the window. 'Short' holes sometimes require a good smack with the driver followed by a long iron, other times they are driveable. I've seen bunkers that are in play at 150 yards when the wind turns but other days you don't even think about them.

 

[Yant]

For me it's always been the really short par 3's. I can't think of many really short par 3 holes (on a proper full length golf course) that aren't enjoyable to play. I'm talking about ones that range from 100-130 yards.

 

[patricks148]

A hole that is risk/ reward for most players not just the big hitters, the first at Dornoch is surely only a risk/reward hole in some conditions in the summer and downwind so I wouldn't class this as a risk/reward hole.

I just don't agree, its 320 tops and the risk is taking the driver and getting close or on the green (always plenty of run at Dornoch).. plus Its supposed to be a gentle introduction to the course, plenty of hard holes to come and if it wasn't for it being the 1st i could well be SI18

as for long hitters, i'm not a long hitter but can get very close with the driver, its not worth the risk though

 

[Rlburnside]

I just don't agree, its 320 tops and the risk is taking the driver and getting close or on the green (always plenty of run at Dornoch).. plus Its supposed to be a gentle introduction to the course, plenty of hard holes to come and if it wasn't for it being the 1st i could well be SI18

as for long hitters, i'm not a long hitter but can get very close with the driver, its not worth the risk though

You say you're not a long hitter but can get very close with the driver that's 320 by your reckoning 331 at the card I looked at, even with a lot of run that's a big hit.

Imo it's irrelevant that it's supposed to be a gentle introduction to the course when talking about a risk/reward hole.

You go on to say it's not worth the risk to go with the driver and I know you've played there many times, this would suggest to me the odds are to much in favour of risk to be a truly good risk/reward hole.

But it would be boring if we all agreed :thup:

 

[londonlewis]

Good question!

When we assess courses for the top 100 rankings we are looking for a variety of things on each hole. These include (but not limited to) how the hole looks visually, does it give the player options on how to play it or is it automatically driver from the tee, does it make you think, how well placed are the hazards, how does it sit in relation to the other holes such as maybe back to back par 3's or par 5's or a relentless run of par 4's, the playability of the green complex, what tricks has the architect used to fool the player such as false fronts on greens or 'greenside' bunkers that are actually well short of the green etc.

There are a whole load of things that make a hole good or bad!

Great answer. Spot on.

 

[jamielaing]

A hole that is risk/ reward for most players not just the big hitters, the first at Dornoch is surely only a risk/reward hole in some conditions in the summer and downwind so I wouldn't class this as a risk/reward hole.

What would you call risk/reward then? If you aren't a fairly long hitter you won't be able to reach par 5s in 2 or par 4s in 1 which is exactly what I would call risk/reward.

The only other way would be having water or hazards in the landing zone. By the sounds of it 200 yards from the tee would be risky for you but for those able to hit drivers over 250 it wouldn't even come into thought.

 

[jamielaing]

You say you're not a long hitter but can get very close with the driver that's 320 by your reckoning 331 at the card I looked at, even with a lot of run that's a big hit.

Imo it's irrelevant that it's supposed to be a gentle introduction to the course when talking about a risk/reward hole.

You go on to say it's not worth the risk to go with the driver and I know you've played there many times, this would suggest to me the odds are to much in favour of risk to be a truly good risk/reward hole.

But it would be boring if we all agreed :thup:

If you can hit a drive 250 on a parkland course you could drive that green with wind behind and the run at Dornoch. A 'big hitter' could do it with a long iron. The trouble is around the green here and the errant drives.

I'd agree that it is risk reward. Would i do it in a comp? Absolutely not.

 

[patricks148]

You say you're not a long hitter but can get very close with the driver that's 320 by your reckoning 331 at the card I looked at, even with a lot of run that's a big hit.

Imo it's irrelevant that it's supposed to be a gentle introduction to the course when talking about a risk/reward hole.

You go on to say it's not worth the risk to go with the driver and I know you've played there many times, this would suggest to me the odds are to much in favour of risk to be a truly good risk/reward hole.

But it would be boring if we all agreed :thup:

even if you can't reach you can take it on and get close, inside 50 yards, so in theory you could be putting from there, or take the safe option and have a longer shot in.... so 50 yard chip or 120 wedge /9 iron thats not risk reward then?

 

[shortgame]

Not played Dornoch (yet) so can't comment on that hole specifically, but...

You don't need to be able to drive the green for it to be a risk/reward par 4

Some of my favourite holes are around that length, maybe not quite driveable (depending on conditions):

Either take driver into a narrower fairway and risk losing a ball / pot bunkers / chop out of fescue etc but a good drive will be rewarded by a short pitch or chip and a putt birdie opportunity

Or

Hit an iron etc into the fatter part of the fairway leaving a more difficult approach

 

[Rlburnside]

What would you call risk/reward then? If you aren't a fairly long hitter you won't be able to reach par 5s in 2 or par 4s in 1 which is exactly what I would call risk/reward.

The only other way would be having water or hazards in the landing zone. By the sounds of it 200 yards from the tee would be risky for you but for those able to hit drivers over 250 it wouldn't even come into thought.

Mmm 200 yards I will have to get a game at Duddingston with you sometime I'm down:thup:

I remember playing a par 5 with a dog leg,safe option try to play safe straight down the fairway or try as I did to carry over the dog leg hit a good shot and a good second to edge of the green and got the putt for a rare eagle.Now that's what I would call a risk/reward hole.

But I take your point that most risk/reward holes favour the longer hitters.

 

[jamielaing]

Mmm 200 yards I will have to get a game at Duddingston with you sometime I'm down:thup:

I remember playing a par 5 with a dog leg,safe option try to play safe straight down the fairway or try as I did to carry over the dog leg hit a good shot and a good second to edge of the green and got the putt for a rare eagle.Now that's what I would call a risk/reward hole.

But I take your point that most risk/reward holes favour the longer hitters.

You should. There's a great par 5 with a burn going across at 280 yards. I'll show you how to take it on.

 

[garyinderry]

you dont always have to knock it on the green to make it a risk reward hole.

you take the risk with the long club leaving a pitch if you cannot or dont hit the green.