What is a path?

[Beezerk]

Had an interesting discussion regarding paths on a golf course yesterday. There are quite a few “mud” paths through some trees that are clearly used as paths by golfers between holes but they aren’t official paths if you get what I mean.
Would free relief be given from these golfer created mud paths or is relief only available from official course paths?

 

[nickjdavis]

My view is that they are simply a worn area of the course. Play the ball as it lies.

 

[Whereditgo]

Any paths from which you are entitled to free relief from are identified on the scorecard at ours.

We also have several mud 'paths' that are created from heavy footfall and occasionally someone will ask for free relief from one of those...unsuccessfully

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My view is that they are simply a worn area of the course. Play the ball as it lies.

We have too many such paths, or paths that start as obvious, clearly defined and constructed, but in many cases the edges have become ill-defined or the surface changes to simply being worn by footfall as they continue. Hence our next major on-course project is to sort our paths so that it is very evident and clear when we are on a path from which relief is given, and when we are not.

Playing yesterday, case in point, my ball was clearly on a path but the edge both sides was very worn and ill-defined with stones from it scattered more widely. I had a discussion with a fellow player where my point of full relief from the path was, whether the fact of stones from the path being in any way part of the ill-defined edge and so determining how far I have to go when determining my NPR.

 

[salfordlad]

The Rules do not provide relief for "paths". Bare dirt areas, muddy or not, whether used as thoroughfares or not, do not get relief - play the ball as lies.

This applies unless a) the Committee declares specific areas to get relief or b) a path/road/cart path etc is constructed of introduced materials such as gravel, mulches, bitumen and the like which means the Rules define such areas as an immovable obstruction and relief is available under Rule 16.

 

[Orikoru]

I usually think of it anything that looks like it's actually been created as a pathway on purpose. Muddy walkways where people have taken shortcuts through a bush or whatever don't really count. But muddy areas on the entry and exit to bridges and carthpaths I do count.

 

[Beezerk]

The Rules do not provide relief for "paths". Bare dirt areas, muddy or not, whether used as thoroughfares or not, do not get relief - play the ball as lies.

This applies unless a) the Committee declares specific areas to get relief or b) a path/road/cart path etc is constructed of introduced materials such as gravel, mulches, bitumen and the like which means the Rules define such areas as an immovable obstruction and relief is available under Rule 16.

Excellent, thank you.

 

[doublebogey7]

I usually think of it anything that looks like it's actually been created as a pathway on purpose. Muddy walkways where people have taken shortcuts through a bush or whatever don't really count. But muddy areas on the entry and exit to bridges and carthpaths I do count.

Sounds like another rule you choose to abuse.

 

[Orikoru]

Sounds like another rule you choose to abuse.

Does it? Everybody I've ever played with does the same. You have to use your own judgement on what's a path and what isn't. As I said, anything that looks intentionally created rather than just footprints in the mud.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I usually think of it anything that looks like it's actually been created as a pathway on purpose. Muddy walkways where people have taken shortcuts through a bush or whatever don't really count. But muddy areas on the entry and exit to bridges and carthpaths I do count.

Does it? Everybody I've ever played with does the same. You have to use your own judgement on what's a path and what isn't. As I said, anything that looks intentionally created rather than just footprints in the mud.

Have you confirmed that it’s part of the path where you can take relief ?


During the summer does it become grass ?

 

[Orikoru]

Have you confirmed that it’s part of the path where you can take relief ?


During the summer does it become grass ?

Very hard to answer these questions about a hypothetical path, unless they were just rhetorical.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Very hard to answer these questions about a hypothetical path, unless they were just rhetorical.

So what does “everyone”’take relief from them if it’s just hypothetical? Surely you are talking about actual examples

“
The rules are concerned about paths that have been artificially surfaced — pavement, gravel, potentially even sand or dirt if they were put there by someone for said purpose. In case you need reminding, as these constitute immovable obstructions you are entitled to free relief, and you can use the original ball or substitute another one. You need not scratch or ding the sole.

Contrarily, a dirt path naturally created over time by wear-and-tear from carts and walkers, for example, isn’t an immovable obstruction unless the committee declares it to be one and decides to give free relief from it.”

So as I said - you can’t just decide to take relief from “muddy areas” leading up to a path unless deemed allowed by the committee

It’s not about judgment or common sense

I really do think that you are a perfect candidate for a rules course because you do need to stop making decisions outside the rules

 

[Orikoru]

So what does “everyone”’take relief from them if it’s just hypothetical? Surely you are talking about actual examples

“
The rules are concerned about paths that have been artificially surfaced — pavement, gravel, potentially even sand or dirt if they were put there by someone for said purpose. In case you need reminding, as these constitute immovable obstructions you are entitled to free relief, and you can use the original ball or substitute another one. You need not scratch or ding the sole.

Contrarily, a dirt path naturally created over time by wear-and-tear from carts and walkers, for example, isn’t an immovable obstruction unless the committee declares it to be one and decides to give free relief from it.”

So as I said - you can’t just decide to take relief from “muddy areas” leading up to a path unless deemed allowed by the committee

It’s not about judgment or common sense

I really do think that you are a perfect candidate for a rules course because you do need to stop making decisions outside the rules

I think this is a dead-end discussion since I don't have any photographs of such things. People who aren't pedantic probably know what I meant though.

 

[YandaB]

I do wonder if our local rule opens up an endless opportunity for confusion: "All roads and paths on the course, even if not artificially-surfaced, are treated as immovable obstructions". That appears to me to include both of Orikoru's examples of "Muddy walkways where people have taken shortcuts through a bush" and "muddy areas on the entry and exit to bridges and carthpaths".

 

[SteveW86]

I'm not sure I'd be able to put my ball down anywhere on our course atm if I took a drop from a care patch that looked like a path

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think this is a dead-end discussion since I don't have any photographs of such things. People who aren't pedantic probably know what I meant though.

Golf is a sport of self policing and people need to be “pedantic” when it comes to the rules

Now this Op is pretty simple and the rules are pretty simple about it but not for the first time you appear to think the best way forward is to follow your “common sense” and “judgement” even when it’s not following the rules

Hence why I think it’s best for you , the people in your club and anyone else you play with for you to learn the rules and do a course , even at least checking the clubs local rules etc

 

[Orikoru]

Golf is a sport of self policing and people need to be “pedantic” when it comes to the rules

Now this Op is pretty simple and the rules are pretty simple about it but not for the first time you appear to think the best way forward is to follow your “common sense” and “judgement” even when it’s not following the rules

Hence why I think it’s best for you , the people in your club and anyone else you play with for you to learn the rules and do a course , even at least checking the clubs local rules etc

I was simply talking about the areas towards the end of the paths. i.e. the dirt and gravel-type paths don't just end with a perfect straight-line cut off, unless they were only built yesterday. Usually there's a an area of blending where mud has been walked onto the path, gravel has been walked into the mud and you can't exactly see where the path ends. It's not perfectly clear where the path ends or begins and this would be the only time you might find you're entitled to a free drop from a muddy footprinted area.

Exactly as you've said - golf is self-policing so in this scenario players have to make a judgement call.

Your last sentence is idiotic and patronising.

 

[Captainron]

I usually think of it anything that looks like it's actually been created as a pathway on purpose. Muddy walkways where people have taken shortcuts through a bush or whatever don't really count. But muddy areas on the entry and exit to bridges and carthpaths I do count.

No issue if you’re having a little game with your mates and the result isn’t official BUT don’t do this in a competition round. There will be officially declared relief areas and pathways which you need to familiarise yourself with. If you take relief and do not adjust your score correctly you could be called out as a cheat and pleading ignorance won’t save you from a negative stigma.

I genuinely think you should enrol in a rules course. It will save you from committing rules breaches as “common sense” as you put it doesn’t actually count.

 

[Orikoru]

No issue if you’re having a little game with your mates and the result isn’t official BUT don’t do this in a competition round. There will be officially declared relief areas and pathways which you need to familiarise yourself with. If you take relief and do not adjust your score correctly you could be called out as a cheat and pleading ignorance won’t save you from a negative stigma.

I genuinely think you should enrol in a rules course. It will save you from committing rules breaches as “common sense” as you put it doesn’t actually count.

I would basically never give myself a free drop without consulting with someone else in the group to be honest, unless it's blindingly obvious. I always make doubly sure I'm doing the right thing.

Can we stop talking about 'rules courses' now, as if any sane person in their right mind would ever do that. Cannot imagine a more boring way to spend one's time. "Siri - what's a good way to put people off golf for life?"

 

[rulefan]

Had an interesting discussion regarding paths on a golf course yesterday. There are quite a few “mud” paths through some trees that are clearly used as paths by golfers between holes but they aren’t official paths if you get what I mean.
Would free relief be given from these golfer created mud paths or is relief only available from official course paths?

The relief from paths is given under 16.1.
This covers Abnormal Course Conditions which includes Obstructions which includes Artificially surfaced roads and paths.
Mud paths are not artificially surfaced so are not Obstructions.

However, a mud path could be considered to be an Abnormal Course Condition which, providing the Committee has designated and defined the area gives exactly the same relief options. If this hasn't been done - Penalty