Walking is an integral part of the (pro) game

[Deleted member 16999]

Although a gender-neutral scamp surely or at least gender-undetermined

No! Back to the days of men being men and ladies in the kitchen, not having any of these modern namby pamby ideas ruining the game.

 

[Slab]

No! Back to the days of men being men and ladies in the kitchen, not having any of these modern namby pamby ideas ruining the game.

You?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

View attachment 27264

You?

Spot on.

 

[r0wly86]

Sticking just to professional golf, my 2p worth is.

The question of whether it is a sport of hitting a ball or walking, the answer is both. The sport of golf is completing 18 holes in as fewer shots as possible, that includes hitting the ball and walking.

The question of making reasonable adjustments for those with disabilities. This doesn't happen in any other professional sport, the idea is that in professional sport where people are competing that it should be a level playing field, if for whatever reason a disability stops you from performing at the required level that is unfortunately bad luck. How many rugby or football players have retired young because of a recurring injury. Freddie Flintoff's career was curtailed due to problems with his heel. None of these people are offered an extra piece of equipment to allow them to compete.

If it's due to an injury, frankly tough luck. I play competitive rugby and had lots of injuries, I get no special treatment, I just have to rest it then work hard to get back to fitness.

If Daly cannot complete 18 holes then I'm afraid his professional days are over, that is just the life of a professional sportman

 

[Slab]

Sticking just to professional golf, my 2p worth is.

The question of whether it is a sport of hitting a ball or walking, the answer is both. The sport of golf is completing 18 holes in as fewer shots as possible, that includes hitting the ball and walking.

The question of making reasonable adjustments for those with disabilities. This doesn't happen in any other professional sport, the idea is that in professional sport where people are competing that it should be a level playing field, if for whatever reason a disability stops you from performing at the required level that is unfortunately bad luck. How many rugby or football players have retired young because of a recurring injury. Freddie Flintoff's career was curtailed due to problems with his heel. None of these people are offered an extra piece of equipment to allow them to compete.

If it's due to an injury, frankly tough luck. I play competitive rugby and had lots of injuries, I get no special treatment, I just have to rest it then work hard to get back to fitness.

If Daly cannot complete 18 holes then I'm afraid his professional days are over, that is just the life of a professional sportman

Some to agree with in that but feel its also right to point out that Daly is playing in a US tournament and is American and applied to use the buggy under a law they have in america (Americans with Disabilities Act) so that country has chosen to have the option for players to apply to use a cart

(also in pro cycling they get to take drugs for asthma condition, and maybe other things, in order to compete at the very peak of the sport which they otherwise couldn't, there's no question of them being told 'tough its time to retire')

 

[r0wly86]

Some to agree with in that but feel its also right to point out that Daly is playing in a US tournament and is American and applied to use the buggy under a law they have in america (Americans with Disabilities Act) so that country has chosen to have the option for players to apply to use a cart

(also in pro cycling they get to take drugs for asthma condition, and maybe other things, in order to compete at the very peak of the sport which they otherwise couldn't, there's no question of them being told 'tough its time to retire')

Of course, I know that he has been allowed to use one, and although I cannot fault the law, doesn't mean I agree with it. A golfer in the UK could cite the Equalities Act 2010 requiring reasonable adjustments for those with a protected characteristic of which disability is one. I just don't like it

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Sticking just to professional golf, my 2p worth is.

The question of whether it is a sport of hitting a ball or walking, the answer is both. The sport of golf is completing 18 holes in as fewer shots as possible, that includes hitting the ball and walking.

The question of making reasonable adjustments for those with disabilities. This doesn't happen in any other professional sport, the idea is that in professional sport where people are competing that it should be a level playing field, if for whatever reason a disability stops you from performing at the required level that is unfortunately bad luck. How many rugby or football players have retired young because of a recurring injury. Freddie Flintoff's career was curtailed due to problems with his heel. None of these people are offered an extra piece of equipment to allow them to compete.

If it's due to an injury, frankly tough luck. I play competitive rugby and had lots of injuries, I get no special treatment, I just have to rest it then work hard to get back to fitness.

If Daly cannot complete 18 holes then I'm afraid his professional days are over, that is just the life of a professional sportman

Whose decision is it to retire? Player or Manager?
The sports you list are team sports, not individual.

Some top level sportsmen reduce their minutes on the pitch or have injections to get them through the event.
What’s more ethical, prescribed medication or a buggy.

 

[Hobbit]

I'm saying you are not competing on a level playing field, you have a clear advantage when it comes to fatigue near the end of a round. By all means continue to play but playing with an advantage in competition is wrong IMO.

But several clear disadvantages. The inability to make a full swing means I'm down significantly on yardage. As for the issue of fatigue; everyone is different in that respect. If you saw me trying to get out of the car when I get home after a round you might think very differently. You're also assuming that everyone starts a round with the same full tank of energy. By the end of a round I am totally goosed whereas a youngster might go and play 5-a-side later that day.

I get the feeling I'm wasting my time trying to convey what its like to really physically struggle with every day things, including playing golf. But you are right I'm not competing on a level playing field, I'm significantly behind those that have full mobility and fitness.

 

[r0wly86]

Whose decision is it to retire? Player or Manager?
The sports you list are team sports, not individual.

Some top level sportsmen reduce their minutes on the pitch or have injections to get them through the event.
What’s more ethical, prescribed medication or a buggy.

It's the players decision to retire always.

They are team sports, but what about tennis then. Andy Murray is retiring due to hip issues, he's not allowed to rock up on electric scooter to prolong his professional career.

Golf is a physical sport, walking is an integral part of that if you can no longer walk 18 holes you can longer play golf in a professional capacity.

It's not about ethics, it's about the definition of the game

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It's the players decision to retire always.

They are team sports, but what about tennis then. Andy Murray is retiring due to hip issues, he's not allowed to rock up on electric scooter to prolong his professional career.

Golf is a physical sport, walking is an integral part of that if you can no longer walk 18 holes you can longer play golf in a professional capacity.

It's not about ethics, it's about the definition of the game

If the laws of tennis allowed Andy Murray to compete using an electric scooter then he may consider it, you’re trying to prove your point using extremes.
There are numerous examples of top level disabled athletes competing at able bodied sports using aids.

Currently the ruling bodies allow a buggy being used with a medical exemption.
I’d suggest the issue lies with the governing body.

 

[Papas1982]

No one asks to get a debilitating illness or condition. And is it right to tell someone they have to limit their lifestyle/excesses, and be in bed by 11pm, or lose their livelihood?

Golf is a sport that requires a certain level of fitness but it is also an entertainment industry. I want to see the best ball strikers, and drive boomers, but I'm not that fussed at watching them walk for 5 minutes then spend minutes discussing how they're going to play the shot. Imagine how much shorter rounds would be if pros used buggies between shots.

I genuinely don't think it would speed things up. How often a greens clear and yet we wait ages for them to take their shots. That's after they've had time to walk to their ball, considering shots whilst walking and still taking an age once there.

72 players In buggys would imo just mea we'd see them sat in them waiting til greens cleared.

 

[r0wly86]

If the laws of tennis allowed Andy Murray to compete using an electric scooter then he may consider it, you’re trying to prove your point using extremes.
There are numerous examples of top level disabled athletes competing at able bodied sports using aids.

Currently the ruling bodies allow a buggy being used with a medical exemption.
I’d suggest the issue lies with the governing body.

At no point have I said that he is unable to use one. That is not the discussion, I'm merely stating that in my opinion if your body can no longer do the job then you can longer play professional sport.

I'm aware he can under the current rules and have no problem with that

 

[Deleted member 16999]

At no point have I said that he is unable to use one. That is not the discussion, I'm merely stating that in my opinion if your body can no longer do the job then you can longer play professional sport.

I'm aware he can under the current rules and have no problem with that

I understand that, but I don’t see how it seems ( maybe not by you) that extending or helping a professional to play their sport by the use of medicines is ok. It’s a very grey area imo.
Both are still an aid.

 

[r0wly86]

I understand that, but I don’t see how it seems ( maybe not by you) that extending or helping a professional to play their sport by the use of medicines is ok. It’s a very grey area imo.
Both are still an aid.

medicine is an aid for someone to perform a normal action, like all the competitors. I can take a pinkiller to help my wrist and play golf, I have gained no advantage over the field, at best I am at their level.

If I was given a buggy when no one else is then I'm saving myself the expended energy of walking, if it is a particularly hilly course the advantage is more.

Golf is a closed skill game, meaning fatigue is a big issue. If I am less fatigues because of a buggy then I gain an advantage.

I guess the question is, is that advantage gained small enough to ignore to allow those with disabilities to play

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I'm saying you are not competing on a level playing field, you have a clear advantage when it comes to fatigue near the end of a round. By all means continue to play but playing with an advantage in competition is wrong IMO.

The last sentence here does have some merit, on the face of it, but it is somewhat dogmatic. However, unfortunately these days , in lots of things, views get polarised very quickly, trenches are dug and then defended without compromise.😀
Pro golf - Yes, comparing with other pro sports, if you are not fit then you either don't play or you play unaided and still have to manage your fitness problem. Football, rugby, athletics .... they don't make exceptions, fair enough.
Now the amateur game. On further reflection, Opens , where there are prizes etc and that is the main "raison d'etre "of participating, then the same should apply.
But now to Club monthly comps. These are a different matter, and it is a hard heart that would insist otherwise.Especially as one is obliged, really, to enter some comps to keep your handicap.
Take my case. I recently came back to golf at an elderly age because I really missed it . I found I could swing and hit without a problem. On starting again I didn't intend to enter any comps, just play socially was my intention. I knew early , almost certainly, that I couldn't make 18 holes physically. So, rather than leave it to the Government, I splashed out on an individual buggy. Then joined a longer Club and then I learned that I needed to enter at least three comps a year to keep a handicap. My PPs were almost always playing monthly comps, as it seemed almost every senior was.
I acknowledge that my use of a buggy got me less fatigued, so I tried using a trolley in competition, but it didn't work out. Fortunately , the Club is relaxed about my use of my buggy and no one minds. I don't enter too many comps , trying mostly to play social golf. But, if I couldn't enter any competition then my handicap would lapse!
So , I suggest it is not an all or nothing situation at Club level, -please , tolerate us old decrepit crocks, we are not too much of a threat😁

 

[clubchamp98]

Whats that now So if someone just thinks they have an advantage despite your belief they don't actually have an advantage then the hypothetical advantage becomes a real advantage and that's to their advantage leaving you disadvantaged

I can’t see any advantage in that statement!

 

[clubchamp98]

Agreeing with Slab

Say a player cannot afford to buy an electric trolley and has to carry his clubs round the course.

Do players with an electric trolley have an advantage over those that carry?

Should clubs therefore ban electric trollies in comps because it gives them an unfair advantage over those that have to carry?

Money has always given someone an alleged advantage.
So no fitted driver/ irons , nice clothes , waterproofs ,shoes because Joe Bloggs can’t afford them?

 

[r0wly86]

The last sentence here does have some merit, on the face of it, but it is somewhat dogmatic. However, unfortunately these days , in lots of things, views get polarised very quickly, trenches are dug and then defended without compromise.😀
Pro golf - Yes, comparing with other pro sports, if you are not fit then you either don't play or you play unaided and still have to manage your fitness problem. Football, rugby, athletics .... they don't make exceptions, fair enough.
Now the amateur game. On further reflection, Opens , where there are prizes etc and that is the main "raison d'etre "of participating, then the same should apply.
But now to Club monthly comps. These are a different matter, and it is a hard heart that would insist otherwise.Especially as one is obliged, really, to enter some comps to keep your handicap.
Take my case. I recently came back to golf at an elderly age because I really missed it . I found I could swing and hit without a problem. On starting again I didn't intend to enter any comps, just play socially was my intention. I knew early , almost certainly, that I couldn't make 18 holes physically. So, rather than leave it to the Government, I splashed out on an individual buggy. Then joined a longer Club and then I learned that I needed to enter at least three comps a year to keep a handicap. My PPs were almost always playing monthly comps, as it seemed almost every senior was.
I acknowledge that my use of a buggy got me less fatigued, so I tried using a trolley in competition, but it didn't work out. Fortunately , the Club is relaxed about my use of my buggy and no one minds. I don't enter too many comps , trying mostly to play social golf. But, if I couldn't enter any competition then my handicap would lapse!
So , I suggest it is not an all or nothing situation at Club level, -please , tolerate us old decrepit crocks, we are not too much of a threat😁

I have no problem at club level. But can I ask why do you need a handicap. My dad is in his 70s now doesn't play competitions so doesn't have a valid handicap.

He just plays for fun with his mates, and to get better

 

[sunshine]

Is it a test of walking or the ability to put the ball in the hole? "Oh, he's a scratch walker at least but a 15 handicap golfer!"

I wonder how any comps Olazabal would have won if he'd been allowed, or able, to use a buggy when his arthritis was at its worst? In some respects we have been robbed of seeing more of Olazabal because of his struggles for many years, and that's a crying shame.

Golf may well be a sport but how many professional golfers could run a half marathon?

Surely golf is a test of covering the course in as few shots as possible, that includes the walk. A buggy should never be acceptable in the professional game.

Football is a test of scoring goals, the winner is not judged on who has run the farthest. Is it ok for an injured player to zip around the pitch on a buggy and get out to kick the ball? It would have prolonged Beckhams career several years if it had been possible to wheel him out for dead ball situations.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

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