Vanity handicappers vs banditos

[jamielaing]

Both are as bad as each other. I know a guy who was down to 1. Making big comments about how he should be in the team and it's out of order that he's never been picked. Look at his scores and every good score is a general play. Everything else was in the 80s. This guy is cheating. He is cheating to get into the team. To get into scratch tournaments and take other people's place.

Bandits are doing it for trophies and winnings.

On the guy in question. He was banned from entering general scores. Now off 5 and rising. Suspiciously all his good scores are away opens.

 

[jim8flog]

Except that vanity handicappers are potentailly (and selfishly) depriving others of entering comps at the true handicap level?

Ditto to that comment
We had one player who only ever entered National elite player or similar comps and returned scores nowhere near his handicap. We increased his handicap when doing the annual review to stop him from being able to enter. We also had another who never returned his cards in club comps deliberately, he was given several warnings about it and in the end suspended his handicap which stopped him from playing in county comps he had already entered.

 

[LincolnShep]

Bandits are worse, but that's a purely selfish opinion from a 17 handicapper.
Vanity handicappers don't affect me. I'm not trying to enter opens with handicap limits so they're not taking up a space that I could have taken. If I end up playing against them, they've deliberately hampered their own chances.
Bandits, on the other hand, are cheats and their cheating might affect me.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My current HI is 7.3. Next card I submit I will lose a 2.2 diff off the bottom. I am very unlikely to post a 2.2 diff. Almost certainly I'll post a score that will put my CH up by a shot - I don't have a backup in my 20. Thing is...I have a 1st round Summer Singles KO match on Saturday and I'm giving him 5 shots. I then have a Winter Singles KO semi-final match on Monday and I'm giving him 4 shots - they are both decent mid-teens handicap golfers.

Now very obviously I could put a card in today or tomorrow - or Sunday for the Monday match...and I'd be giving them a shot less. But I am disinclined to do so. Why? I'm not sure - but I think it's because it's not something that I'd normally do - so in that respect it would feel - to me - that I'm manipulating my handicap. But it could be because my CH off the back tees would go up to 10...so vanity? I don't think it's the latter.

Or maybe I'm just stupid

 

[wjemather]

I was right on the cut-off mark for an open last year and was ballotted out, while (at least) 2 players having handicaps propped up with suspiciously good GP scores (and even more suspiciously - no ordinary or bad GP scores) got in.

 

[SteveJay]

My current HI is 7.3. Next card I submit I will lose a 2.2 diff off the bottom. I am very unlikely to post a 2.2 diff. Almost certainly I'll post a score that will put my CH up by a shot - I don't have a backup in my 20. Thing is...I have a 1st round Summer Singles KO match on Saturday and I'm giving him 5 shots. I then have a Winter Singles KO semi-final match on Monday and I'm giving him 4 shots - they are both decent mid-teens handicap golfers.

Now very obviously I could put a card in today or tomorrow - or Sunday for the Monday match...and I'd be giving them a shot less. But I am disinclined to do so. Why? I'm not sure - but I think it's because it's not something that I'd normally do - so in that respect it would feel - to me - that I'm manipulating my handicap. But it could be because my CH off the back tees would go up to 10...so vanity? I don't think it's the latter.

Or maybe I'm just stupid

Im in a similar position. Qualifying scores have just reopened after being off fairways all winter. I have 3 of my better counting scores that will drop off when i next enter cards so I could easily put a couple GP cards in before the first club competition of the year which could see me go up a bit. But I won't, as I'm playing reasonably well and want to lower my HC as much as possible (through practice and good play rather than manipulation!).

 

[Dunesman]

Im in a similar position. Qualifying scores have just reopened after being off fairways all winter. I have 3 of my better counting scores that will drop off when i next enter cards so I could easily put a couple GP cards in before the first club competition of the year which could see me go up a bit. But I won't, as I'm playing reasonably well and want to lower my HC as much as possible (through practice and good play rather than manipulation!).

I dont think there is anything wrong with putting in those GP cards. As long as you give them your best effort, then everything is above board and your index will move as it will. No need to feel you need to wait for a competition, or that if you put in those GP cards and your handicap rose, that you are in anyway manipulating your handicap.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I dont think there is anything wrong with putting in those GP cards. As long as you give them your best effort, then everything is above board and your index will move as it will. No need to feel you need to wait for a competition, or that if you put in those GP cards and your handicap rose, that you are in anyway manipulating your handicap.

I agree but then I am in the habit of putting GP cards in for every round now so I am happy that whatever mark I get is reflective of current form

 

[Imurg]

I dont think there is anything wrong with putting in those GP cards. As long as you give them your best effort, then everything is above board and your index will move as it will. No need to feel you need to wait for a competition, or that if you put in those GP cards and your handicap rose, that you are in anyway manipulating your handicap.

The trouble is you get " suspiciously good GP scores" and immediately everybody gets the knives out.....guilty till proven innocent.

 

[patricks148]

Bandits are the worst, the only trouble with the vanity handicaps is when they started getting places in teams because of a lower handicap they cant legitimately play.

 

[Backache]

I think there are two types of vanity handicapper.
One who uses it to imply that they are better than they are, which is basically a bit delusional but doesn't really harm anyone and can be amusing.

Then there are those who use it to enable them to play competitions and events in demand that demand a lower handicap. This is cheating just as much as banditry.

 

[DeanoMK]

I've said this before on here but a guy I used to work with always plays off of single figures, he's not a member anywhere so it's purely social/society golf.

Every society event he would put himself with the higher handicap players, the sort that are not going to pay as much attention to his scores as others might. He would pretty much always win. Realistically he's a 14/15 handicap but plays off of 8/9 and then lies about how many shots he's had, purely for vanity.

He was the main organiser of said society and he ultimately killed it, because he'd almost always win the individual events and then always won the order of merit.

 

[Jigger]

Definitely. We have one that's starting to attach himself to the Saturday roll up. Won again and where we would have cut him the roll up, playing by the new EGU guidelines we have to wait for the system to catch him up

When whs came out we had a group milking the team comps. All high handicaps coming in massively low in team comps.

 

[3 jabber]

I was right on the cut-off mark for an open last year and was ballotted out, while (at least) 2 players having handicaps propped up with suspiciously good GP scores (and even more suspiciously - no ordinary or bad GP scores) got in.

A 'very low' handicapper in my area is well known for doing exactly this.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

then always won the order of merit.

Our Saturday roll up has an order of merit. Won it 2 years ago and tied 1st last year even with handicap cuts in force. And yes I did get some stick about manipulating the spreadsheet but it was top 10 scores counting. They wanted to make last year top 12 scores but I pointed out to a few they really didn't want to push that line as I'd have won on top 11-14 scores!

 

[nickh]

I would still maintain vanity handicappers are worse. At least a bandit entering a comp is going up against a field of others with a chance to beat the bandits score. A vanity handicapper is pitching themselves against one or two others around the same HI, potentially depriving those players of spots on teams, in comps or specific handicap divisions.

 

[nickh]

My current HI is 7.3. Next card I submit I will lose a 2.2 diff off the bottom. I am very unlikely to post a 2.2 diff. Almost certainly I'll post a score that will put my CH up by a shot - I don't have a backup in my 20. Thing is...I have a 1st round Summer Singles KO match on Saturday and I'm giving him 5 shots. I then have a Winter Singles KO semi-final match on Monday and I'm giving him 4 shots - they are both decent mid-teens handicap golfers.

Now very obviously I could put a card in today or tomorrow - or Sunday for the Monday match...and I'd be giving them a shot less. But I am disinclined to do so. Why? I'm not sure - but I think it's because it's not something that I'd normally do - so in that respect it would feel - to me - that I'm manipulating my handicap. But it could be because my CH off the back tees would go up to 10...so vanity? I don't think it's the latter.

Or maybe I'm just stupid

But that's the point; there is jeopardy.

You might even better an exisitng score diff, but it sounds like you've already talked yourself out of it!!

 

[garyinderry]

How do these vanity players get into teams and more importantly still get picked after preforming poorly in the matches.

When I played in a team for my club. We had a weekly training session. Which was everyone turned up and played alt shots with various partners. The team selector drove around and watched the pairings. We handed in our cards at the end and the final team was selected from that.

Anyone cheating to get into a scratch team should really stick out or at least not perform to the expected level when it comes to the crunch in games and wouldn't get selected again.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

How do these vanity players get into teams and more importantly still get picked after preforming poorly in the matches.

When I played in a team for my club. We had a weekly training session. Which was everyone turned up and played alt shots with various partners. The team selector drove around and watched the pairings. We handed in our cards at the end and the final team was selected from that.

Anyone cheating to get into a scratch team should really stick out or at least not perform to the expected level when it comes to the crunch in games and wouldn't get selected again.

This crossed my mind. I can get players losing one or two games but to keep losing must raise questions for the selectors. Surely they can play/watch these guys and go from there.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

But that's the point; there is jeopardy.

You might even better an exisitng score diff, but it sounds like you've already talked yourself out of it!!

I know what I’m like likely to score…but that’s almost not quite the point - that being I’m deliberately getting rid of my best diff, by a mile, and that will almost certainly see my HI and CH go up. And that doesn’t sit comfortably with me.