Using Stroke and Distance

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Playing second to raised green - from fairway steep slope up maybe 15' to green. Difficult shot up - steeply sloping green back to front. Overcooked it and went flying over back of green up bank and ball lodges in the heather. Sure enough - my delicate 3rd shot pitch not delicate enough and ball goes off front of green and away down the slope - stops maybe 40 paces away at bottom of slope. So I take stroke and distance and drop ball back in heather - so playing 5. My playing companions looked a bit quizzical when I said 'I'll take stroke and distance' then realised why I could do that.

Whether it was right decision or not, I didn't break any rules did I? BTW - if I hadn't been able to drop the ball in the heather without it ending up nearer to the hole - two goes then a place?

 

[bladeplayer]

Nope to breaking any rules ..
Yep to the drop , deem it unplayable go back to the place you played your last shot ,
put a tee in the ground & take a drop , if it rolls past the tee closer to the hole then drop again , if it goes closer again try it a 3rd time , then place the ball where the ball touched the ground behind the tee & play under penalty of one shot ..

Open to correction tho

 

[duncan mackie]

Whether it was right decision or not, I didn't break any rules did I? BTW - if I hadn't been able to drop the ball in the heather without it ending up nearer to the hole - two goes then a place?

didn't break a rule.

slight care on the second point, as it's one I see people struggle with frequently (including our last match where I was quizzed - I always talk it through before doing it to avoid problems)

as long as your drop was in the right place with regards to the point the ball first makes contact with the course then if the ball rolls/hops/jumps forwards and ends up nearer the hole then the second time it happens you place the ball where it contacted the course the second time you dropped it.

if you drop it and it lands nearer the hole, or more than the designated club lengths from the reference point, then you do not count this in the '2' above.

 

[Twire]

If I'm reading this correct, you called unplayable after your 3rd shot and re-dropped where you last played? If this is the case, then it's OK. Stroke and distance is confusing me.

 

[AmandaJR]

Bit of a thread hijack - sorry...ball in bush and declared unplayable and penalty drop taken 2 club lengths from where it lies. This take ball into a clear area but on a slope which is likely to have the ball roll back towards said bush.

What can I do if this happens? In fact it did roll back but not as far as its original position.

Also - ball on fringe but stance would be in a sprinkler head. Relief? Is it a drop or place and 1 club length no nearer? If (as it did) it rolls no nearer but more than a club length is it a re-drop?

 

[Twire]

1, Play it where it finishes (within 2 club lengths of where it first stuck the course, no nearer the hole).

2, Sprinkler heads are covered by local rules.

 

[bladeplayer]

Bit of a thread hijack - sorry...ball in bush and declared unplayable and penalty drop taken 2 club lengths from where it lies. This take ball into a clear area but on a slope which is likely to have the ball roll back towards said bush.

What can I do if this happens? In fact it did roll back but not as far as its original position.

Also - ball on fringe but stance would be in a sprinkler head. Relief? Is it a drop or place and 1 club length no nearer? If (as it did) it rolls no nearer but more than a club length is it a re-drop?

it would be a re-drop in the 1st instance if you are not clear of what you took the penalty relief from , see 20-2c (v) re drop if it rolls to or comes rest in a position where there is interference by the condition from which relief was taken ...

2nd,, its a drop , 1 club lenght from nearest point of relief ,

if it roll further away , no re drop , play as it lies ........... not 100% on 2nd one , bout 95%

sorry i was wrong rule 20-2c (vi)says re drop if it rolls to rest more than 2club lenghts from where it 1st struck part of the course

 

[AmandaJR]

it would be a re-drop in the 1st instance , see 20-2c (v) rolls to or comes rest in a position where there is interference by the condition from which relief was taken ...

2nd,, its a drop , 1 club lenght from nearest point of relief ,

if it roll further away , no re drop , play as it lies ........... not 100% on 2nd one , bout 95%

Thanks. I thought the same on the first point but was unsure so we (greensomes) played it from where it lay. I thought there was some reference to full relief being obtained but couldn't be sure. Still not sure bout the 2nd one either!

 

[bladeplayer]

Thanks. I thought the same on the first point but was unsure so we (greensomes) played it from where it lay. I thought there was some reference to full relief being obtained but couldn't be sure. Still not sure bout the 2nd one either!

I edited that Amanda fair sure i was wrong , more confused now ha

rule 20-2c (vi)says re drop if it rolls to rest more than 2club lenghts from where it 1st struck part of the course

have a peek at the book or Duncan , Mashie or Clive might be good enough to clarify

 

[Twire]

it would be a re-drop in the 1st instance if you are not clear of what you took the penalty relief from , see 20-2c (v) re drop if it rolls to or comes rest in a position where there is interference by the condition from which relief was taken ...

2nd,, its a drop , 1 club lenght from nearest point of relief ,

if it roll further away , no re drop , play as it lies ........... not 100% on 2nd one , bout 95%

sorry i was wrong rule 20-2c (vi)says re drop if it rolls to rest more than 2club lenghts from where it 1st struck part of the course

If you read the rest of that rule.....

20-2c (v) Rolls and comes to rest in a position where there is interference by the condition from which relief was taken under rule 24-2b (immoveable obstruction) Rule 25-1 (abnormal ground condition) Rule 25-3 (wrong putting green) or a local rule, or if it rolls back into a pitch mark from which it was lifted under (embedded ball).


No mention of if it rolls back into the bush.

 

[bladeplayer]

If you read the rest of that rule.....

20-2c (v) Rolls and comes to rest in a position where there is interference by the condition from which relief was taken under rule 24-2b (immoveable obstruction) Rule 25-1 (abnormal ground condition) Rule 25-3 (wrong putting green) or a local rule, or if it rolls back into a pitch mark from which it was lifted under (embedded ball).


No mention of if it rolls back into the bush.

Apologies .. So what standing does the bush have ? never ever imagined id ever ask a question like that ha

 

[North Mimms]

Bit of a thread hijack - sorry...ball in bush and declared unplayable and penalty drop taken 2 club lengths from where it lies. This take ball into a clear area but on a slope which is likely to have the ball roll back towards said bush.

What can I do if this happens? In fact it did roll back but not as far as its original position.

Also - ball on fringe but stance would be in a sprinkler head. Relief? Is it a drop or place and 1 club length no nearer? If (as it did) it rolls no nearer but more than a club length is it a re-drop?

It's not unusual that the 2 club lengths relief will not get you out of trouble.
Sometimes it's just best to go back and play from where last stroke was played.
Something I wished I thought of more often on the course.
Many a time I have hit my ball into knee high grass, had a go at getting it out and failed, then it's too late to go back to that nice bit of fairway!

 

[rosecott]

20 -2c does not apply to an unplayable lie declaration, only to free relief. Amanda, you have to be careful that the ball doesn't roll back less than 2 clublengths into the bush or you have another unplayable penalty on your hands.

 

[duncan mackie]

these threads get way to complicated - Amanda (please) just start a new thread next time; it's a good question and one that deserves it's own space.

in no particular order, and covering a range of questions and responses.......

1. sprinkler heads do not require a LR in this situation. they are covered under 24-2 in the same way as any other imovable obstruction. however, to get line of play relief around the green from a sprinkler head it does require a LR - which will cover the interference and relief options.

2. if you are taking relief under a rule you must take full relief, and if the ball rolls into a position where the situation that you were taking relief from interfers you have no choice but to re-drop (even if you love the lie etc).

3. if you are proceeding under rule 28 for an unplayable ball it is irrelevant if the ball rolls back into what you were trying to get away from - it only matters that the drop is technically correct (as Rosecott has set out).

 

[AmandaJR]

Thanks Jim and Duncan. Good point well made about starting a new thread...will do next time. Is it only me who gets multiple queries every time I play a match??

Anyhow, learning more every time and loving it. The other three in our match all turned to me with any query which was kind of nice but kind of scary too!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well Amanda - I only properly understood how I could use S&D at my choosing from here and the good folk that inhabit our strange little virtual world. This was the first time that I have ever used it - in 40 yrs of playing golf. I'm not sure if it was the best decision but it was good to know I had the option. Besides I felt better that I wasn't back on the fairway playing a tricky and risky pitch back up.

 

[bobmac]

I really dont like this course of action.
Just say you are off the green with a bunker between you and the flag, no more than 10 yards away. You try the flop shot with your 73 deg LW and thin it across the green, down the bank and back onto the fairway 40 yards from the pin on a perfect lie.
How can you claim it unplayable when clearly it's not, then take a penalty drop 30 yards nearer the hole from where the ball lies?

I know it's within the rules and its up to the player to decide when a ball is unplayable blah blah blah, I just dont think it's right.
Hit it
Find it and hit it again.
If you cant find it, go back and hit another one.

 

[chrisd]

I really dont like this course of action.
Just say you are off the green with a bunker between you and the flag, no more than 10 yards away. You try the flop shot with your 73 deg LW and thin it across the green, down the bank and back onto the fairway 40 yards from the pin on a perfect lie.
How can you claim it unplayable when clearly it's not, then take a penalty drop 30 yards nearer the hole from where the ball lies?

I know it's within the rules and its up to the player to decide when a ball is unplayable blah blah blah, I just dont think it's right.
Hit it
Find it and hit it again.
If you cant find it, go back and hit another one.

I bet that if you did this and then went to play the same shot again the chances are pretty high that you would scud it once more! This,Bob, is surely one of those times that you can do something under the rules that help and not hurt you, after all, most of us normally just get penalised by them!

 

[MashieNiblick]

I really dont like this course of action.
Just say you are off the green with a bunker between you and the flag, no more than 10 yards away. You try the flop shot with your 73 deg LW and thin it across the green, down the bank and back onto the fairway 40 yards from the pin on a perfect lie.
How can you claim it unplayable when clearly it's not, then take a penalty drop 30 yards nearer the hole from where the ball lies?

I know it's within the rules and its up to the player to decide when a ball is unplayable blah blah blah, I just dont think it's right.
Hit it
Find it and hit it again.
If you cant find it, go back and hit another one.

But Bob the whole point is that you don't have to declare it unplayable. Rule 27-1a stands on its own and gives the S&D option in any situation.

It just gives a golfer another option under penalty if you make a mess of a shot, with the risk that you might make the same mistake again.

 

[bobmac]

It just gives a golfer another option under penalty if you make a mess of a shot, with the risk that you might make the same mistake again.

Isn't that how you learn, by your mistakes ?

But Bob the whole point is that you don't have to declare it unplayable. Rule 27-1a stands on its own and gives the S&D option in any situation.

You can call it what you want. You've lifted the ball from a perfect lie, taken a penalty drop and moved the ball 30 yards nearer the hole which I think is fundamentally wrong.