Urgent help please

[shortgame]

Thanks in advance

Pairs better ball matchplay

Player A accidentally moves partner B's ball on the fairway

Loss of hole for A&B or penalty for A with B carrying on without penalty?

 

[Colin L]

Thanks in advance

Pairs better ball matchplay

Player A accidentally moves partner B's ball on the fairway

Loss of hole for A&B or penalty for A with B carrying on without penalty?

1 stroke penalty to B and B must replace his ball. [18-2]

A did not get any advantage from his action and so incurs no penalty. [30-3f]

 

[Imurg]

Not disputing your answer Colin but why is B penalised for something A did.?
That doesn't seem fair to anyone..
If anyone is to be penalised, surely it should be A.......advantage or not....
Please enlighten me:thup:

 

[Colin L]

Not disputing your answer Colin but why is B penalised for something A did.?
That doesn't seem fair to anyone..
If anyone is to be penalised, surely it should be A.......advantage or not....
Please enlighten me:thup:

Because they are partners. See Rule 18-2

if the player, his partner or either of their caddies ......causes the ball to move .......the player incurs a penalty of one stroke.

 

[shortgame]

Guys - thanks for your help 👍

 

[rulie]

1 stroke penalty to B and B must replace his ball. [18-2]

A did not get any advantage from his action and so incurs no penalty. [30-3f]

Imo, it really doesn't matter if A gained an advantage or not, it is a one stroke penalty on B, A's partner.

 

[Colin L]

It really doesn't matter if A gained an advantage or not, it is a one stroke penalty on B, A's partner.

I hope I was clear. B is penalised one stroke under 18-2.

The point I was making about A's avoiding a penalty was in relation to Rule 30-3(f) as cited which tells us that a partner is also penalised if he gains an advantage from the player's breach of a rule. I may have mis-applied that in considering it in the OP's situation where A's partner B is penalised for A's action. I can't think of an example where A could gain an advantage when B is penalised for A's breach of a rule. Could that happen, and if so would A also be penalised?

 

[rulie]

I hope I was clear. B is penalised one stroke under 18-2.

The point I was making about A's avoiding a penalty was in relation to Rule 30-3(f) as cited which tells us that a partner is also penalised if he gains an advantage from the player's breach of a rule. I may have mis-applied that in considering it in the OP's situation where A's partner B is penalised for A's action. I can't think of an example where A could gain an advantage when B is penalised for A's breach of a rule. Could that happen, and if so would A also be penalised?

It would be a very weird and extremely rare situation, but think if A and B (as partners) were both on the putting green and have the same/similar line of putt. A "accidentally" kicks B's ball towards the hole, noting the speed and break for his (A) putt. But also note that Decision 30-3f/6, an equity Decision, might be applicable. It's a rabbit hole, probably not worthy of further discussion/speculation.

 

[Colin L]

Impressively imaginative! But you're right about the rabbit hole. They play crocquet with flamingoes for mallets and hedgehogs for balls down these. Heaven knows how they play golf.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I hope I was clear. B is penalised one stroke under 18-2.

The point I was making about A's avoiding a penalty was in relation to Rule 30-3(f) as cited which tells us that a partner is also penalised if he gains an advantage from the player's breach of a rule. I may have mis-applied that in considering it in the OP's situation where A's partner B is penalised for A's action. I can't think of an example where A could gain an advantage when B is penalised for A's breach of a rule. Could that happen, and if so would A also be penalised?

What about if A and B are both on the green with difficult and very similar putts (most likely downhill). 'B' to play first. 'A' takes out flag and 'absent-mindedly' (ahem) places it on the green beyond the hole and across the line of putt past the hole. 'B' putts firmly on line to take out any break but way too strong if it misses - he misses - and ball goes on and hits flag and is stopped. Now 'B' gets penalty shot for hitting flag (though will this change under rule change in respect of leaving flag in hole whilst putting?). However 'A' now has better idea of line and pace of putt. Also - does 'B' play from where the flag stopped his ball or does he have to replace it to where he had putted it?

yes I know - a bit contrived...but not too contrived

 

[rulefan]

A DQd under 1-2.

 

[rulie]

A DQd under 1-2.

Not sure what situation you're responding to? If it's the flagstick post, B is dq'd for the hole when his ball struck the removed flagstick. If B's breach of the Rules assisted his partner A, A is also dq'd for the hole- Rule 30-3f.
Rule 1-2 is not applicable as Rule 30-3f covers the situation.

 

[rulefan]

I was thinking of *In the case of a serious breach of Rule 1-2, the Committee may impose a penalty of disqualification.

 

[rulie]

I was thinking of *In the case of a serious breach of Rule 1-2, the Committee may impose a penalty of disqualification.

Where is the breach of Rule 1-2?

 

[rulefan]

Post #10

A player must not (i) take an action with the intent to influence the movement of a ball in playor (ii) alter physical conditions with the intent of affecting the playing of a hole.

 

[rulie]

Post #10

A player must not (i) take an action with the intent to influence the movement of a ball in playor (ii) alter physical conditions with the intent of affecting the playing of a hole.

I know what the Rule says. And how are you proving intent from that post?

 

[rulefan]

By talking to the player

 

[rulie]

By talking to the player

It reads as though you've already made up your mind before speaking with him or her?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I often see players placing the flag behind the hole and across the line of a putt were it to miss - and if it is me to putt I woill ask them to move the flag as I don't want to hit it.

I'm not thinking of the flag being placed immediately behind the hole. But on a fast, downhill slope a ball can go a long way... and it could be dropped thoughtlessly in a position that could stop a ball going off the green (into greenside bunker etc).

Very difficult then to prove intent.

 

[rulefan]

It reads as though you've already made up your mind before speaking with him or her?

I have already reached a conclusion re his intelligence.
But Swingsitlikehogan gave us a good indication