Upward adjustment or not?

sawtooth

sawtooth

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Before a comp started a player asked if he was still playing off 7 or could he play off 8?

The situation is this, he’s an away player but he played a comp with us last week and was well outside buffer on 7.4

He’s due .1 back but his Home club hadn’t applied the update since last week.

Technically the player is 7.5 but we told him that he has to play off 7 .

Sounds unfair but I think it was the right call?!
 
sawtooth said:
Before a comp started a player asked if he was still playing off 7 or could he play off 8?

The situation is this, he’s an away player but he played a comp with us last week and was well outside buffer on 7.4

He’s due .1 back but his Home club hadn’t applied the update since last week.

Technically the player is 7.5 but we told him that he has to play off 7 .

Sounds unfair but I think it was the right call?!
Click to expand...

When you say "his Home club hadn’t applied the update since last week", what do you mean?

Have they closed the comp? That would have updated his handicap.
Have they got the results but simply not forwarded anything to the home club? The CDH update should be automatic.
Has the player received any formal notification, either from the away club directly or by accessing their website?
 
rulefan said:
When you say "his Home club hadn’t applied the update since last week", what do you mean?

Have they closed the comp? That would have updated his handicap.
Have they got the results but simply not forwarded anything to the home club? The CDH update should be automatic.
Has the player received any formal notification, either from the away club directly or by accessing their website?
Click to expand...

I meant that they hadn’t seen or accepted the AWAY score come through which would have resulted in a .1 increase.

It was our comp last week that he played in and yes the comp was closed same day.
 
sawtooth said:
I meant that they hadn’t seen or accepted the AWAY score come through which would have resulted in a .1 increase.

It was our comp last week that he played in and yes the comp was closed same day.
Click to expand...

So a third club is involved. I never understood that why, when a comp is closed, no matter where it was, the system requires input from a human to accept a score and why it's not automatically done the next time the system goes live.
 
Old Skier said:
So a third club is involved. I never understood that why, when a comp is closed, no matter where it was, the system requires input from a human to accept a score and why it's not automatically done the next time the system goes live.
Click to expand...
What third club ?

As for the OP he is playing off 7 - that’s the HC that will on the CDH at the time of the Comp so should be the HC he plays off
 
Liverpoolphil said:
What third club ?

As for the OP he is playing off 7 - that’s the HC that will on the CDH at the time of the Comp so should be the HC he plays off
Click to expand...

Lol - 3rd club....

Regarding the general principle isn't it the handicap record of the players home club that's the master record in this context, rather than the CDH?
 
duncan mackie said:
Lol - 3rd club....

Regarding the general principle isn't it the handicap record of the players home club that's the master record in this context, rather than the CDH?
Click to expand...

The CDH and Home club should be an exact image of each other especially when you update on a daily basis but yeah get your point about the HC at home being the master.

It’s not a hard process really - especially with new cloud based systems.
 
duncan mackie said:
Lol - 3rd club....

Regarding the general principle isn't it the handicap record of the players home club that's the master record in this context, rather than the CDH?
Click to expand...

Not sure what the LOL is all about but:

My reading of it is that originally the home club didn't upload and away score which would have increased the HC by .1 and ( and this is what I'm not sure of) sawtooth club is the players other Away club but I may have got that wrong so it doesn't matter what cloud based system is in operation it still requires a human interaction so if the if everything was automatic these problems would go away.
 
Old Skier said:
Not sure what the LOL is all about but:

My reading of it is that originally the home club didn't upload and away score which would have increased the HC by .1 and ( and this is what I'm not sure of) sawtooth club is the players other Away club but I may have got that wrong so it doesn't matter what cloud based system is in operation it still requires a human interaction so if the if everything was automatic these problems would go away.
Click to expand...

No mate sorry, we are his only away club, he played in a comp at our place last week and shot over buffer (.1) but his home club did not for whatever reason update his handicap with this change. So this week when he came to us to play again (away) he should have really been playing off 7.5 (8) because we KNEW that he shot over last week.

However, it looks like its tough luck if the home club does not acknowledge the changes in time. I guess this is why its important for clubs to publish and update with the CDH regularly, even if there are no competitions at their own clubs.
 
Could this become a more regular occurrence when the new system, and the possible increase in the number of cards submitted, starts in a couple of years...?
 
Imurg said:
Could this become a more regular occurrence when the new system, and the possible increase in the number of cards submitted, starts in a couple of years...?
Click to expand...

Could well be as there are a number of clubs like ours were it is run by volunteers so they may not log on that regularly. I've been in London for the last week and loggin on was the last thing on my mind and had 3 to accept and add today.
 
sawtooth said:
No mate sorry, we are his only away club, he played in a comp at our place last week and shot over buffer (.1) but his home club did not for whatever reason update his handicap with this change. So this week when he came to us to play again (away) he should have really been playing off 7.5 (8) because we KNEW that he shot over last week.

However, it looks like its tough luck if the home club does not acknowledge the changes in time. I guess this is why its important for clubs to publish and update with the CDH regularly, even if there are no competitions at their own clubs.
Click to expand...

It is the responsibility of the player alone to notify his club of all away scores. It is simply a matter of convenience if/when an away club passes on such information. It is discourteous to the home if they don't.
The player should have made efforts to return his score.
Although there are optional sanctions available for not reporting, I see no need in this situation. He simply plays off the lower cap.

Extracts from the Regs

8.10 Report to his Home Club as soon as practicable all Qualifying Scores (including ‘No Returns’ and Disqualified Scores – see Appendix P) returned away from his Home Club

The fact that scores recorded by players competing in competitions away from their Home Club may be reported to their Home Club by the competition organisers, or through a Centralised Database of Handicaps (CDH), does not remove the responsibility of individual players to ensure that all relevant scores are recorded in their Player Handicap Record.

If it is established to the satisfaction of the player’s Home Club, after due investigation, that a player has so failed to report away scores his handicap may be suspended for such period as his Home Club considers appropriate.
 
RF

Just a slight variation.

I play away and enter my score in my ‘Home Club away book’ and I am due 0.1 back, eg I am 6 shots outside my buffer zone.

The Home club do not update the score before I play in an ‘Away Comp’ the next week.

In the example given I take it I would be playing off 7 through not fault of mine.
 
3offTheTee said:
RF

Just a slight variation.

I play away and enter my score in my ‘Home Club away book’ and I am due 0.1 back, eg I am 6 shots outside my buffer zone.

The Home club do not update the score before I play in an ‘Away Comp’ the next week.

In the example given I take it I would be playing off 7 through not fault of mine.
Click to expand...

It may be a slight variation but surely same principle applies, player cannot upwardly adjust him/herself.
 
Given CONGU Clause 7.7b When the club is a player’s Home Club the Handicap Committee must
(b) ensure his scores are recorded as soon as practicable after ........ the reporting of a Qualifying Score returned elsewhere, either by the Player .... , and that all Exact Handicaps are calculated in relation to scores recorded in chronological order.
(c) keep his Exact Handicap up to date at all times;

IMO, the player could assume that the Handicap Committee had fulfilled its obligations and play off the higher figure. Using 34-1b/6 (Committee Error) in equity.
 
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