Unplayable ball in hedge next to massively sloping fairway

[rulefan]

So if you're in a big bush can you can you take an unplayable lie, 2 club lengths and if you're still not out of the bush take another unplayable lie so 4 club lengths in all so the ball is playable?

Yes. But you have to drop initially within the first 2 cl and then drop again. With a total of 2 penalties.

 

[bobmac]

Yes. But you have to drop initially within the first 2 cl and then drop again. With a total of 2 penalties.

So you can't just measure 4 cl from the balls position, drop and add 2 shots?
Bit of a bummer if the first 2 cl are still in the middle of the bush or nettles

 

[Colin L]

So you can't just measure 4 cl from the balls position, drop and add 2 shots?
Bit of a bummer if the first 2 cl are still in the middle of the bush or nettles

No you can't, one reason (maybe the only one) being that you need a reference point for the second drop i.e. the spot where the ball comes to rest after the first drop.

 

[bobmac]

No you can't, one reason (maybe the only one) being that you need a reference point for the second drop i.e. the spot where the ball comes to rest after the first drop.

But you can pick up the ball from its original position while you are sorting this all out?
I guess you'll know my next question

 

[salfordlad]

But you can pick up the ball from its original position while you are sorting this all out?
I guess you'll know my next question

Your recent questions have indicated a lack of knowledge of the way the unplayable ball rule works. That's all fine, this is the place to ask questions. But I have no idea and no interest in speculating what your next question could be. Ask away, but make it a complete question to help ensure you get a complete answer.

 

[bobmac]

Your recent questions have indicated a lack of knowledge of the way the unplayable ball rule works. That's all fine, this is the place to ask questions. But I have no idea and no interest in speculating what your next question could be.

That's lucky because I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to Colin.

 

[Colin L]

But you can pick up the ball from its original position while you are sorting this all out?
I guess you'll know my next question

You can pick your ball up from its original position anywhere on the course, any time you like. Sometimes there will be a rule to authorise it and you can get on with whatever you're allowed or required to do. Sometimes there won't and it will cost you to put your ball back and do what you should have done in the first place.

Haven't a clue what your next question might be, but let's have it!

 

[bobmac]

Haven't a clue what your next question might be, but let's have it!

If you can't drop a ball 4cl which you have ''paid for'' because there's no reference point to take your second drop from, why can you lift your ball from its original position before you have established the new point as you will have no reference point to use to determine if the new point is not nearer the hole.
And before anyone wants to butt in, I know the ball can roll outside the 2cl

 

[Maninblack4612]

No. That is simply returning the ball into play outside the available relief area.

I mean taking two penalties in the process.

 

[bobmac]

I mean taking two penalties in the process.

I knew you meant that, I'm not sure everyone did, hence my question in post no. 20

 

[doublebogey7]

If you can't drop a ball 4cl which you have ''paid for'' because there's no reference point to take your second drop from, why can you lift your ball from its original position before you have established the new point as you will have no reference point to use to determine if the new point is not nearer the hole.
And before anyone wants to butt in, I know the ball can roll outside the 2cl

Realy not sure of the point of these questions, but I would suggest you take a read of the rules.
If course the ball can roll outside the 2 Cl relief area, but were you to then play it you would incur the GP for playing from a wrong place.

 

[Colin L]

You have the original position of the ball as your reference point. Your ball doesn't have to be there: the spot on the ground is still there just as it is if you accidentally move your ball and have to replace it.

 

[bobmac]

You have the original position of the ball as your reference point. Your ball doesn't have to be there: the spot on the ground is still there just as it is if you accidentally move your ball and have to replace it.

I know all that, I'm asking why is it that you can lift your ball from its original position which means your match play opponent cant tell if the new position 2 drops away is not nearer the hole from the balls original position.
Not nearer the hole is more important in my opinion than 4 club lengths versus 2 x 2 club lengths.

If I was in such a situation, I would not touch the ball until my opponent has agreed the new position was not nearer the hole and as the ball hasn't been moved, I could prove it.

 

[bobmac]

If course the ball can roll outside the 2 Cl relief area, but were you to then play it you would incur the GP for playing from a wrong place.

Now that is a change to the rules I didn't know so thank you for pointing it out.
Maybe it's just as well I don't play any more

 

[cliveb]

with reference to post #3
was the hedge within the relief area?

Yes, the hedge was in the relief area.

 

[cliveb]

To those who are asking about why you can't take 4CL in one go with 2 penalty shots.
None of the rules experts have explicitly stated one obvious (to me) reason why this would be wrong, so let me take a stab at it...

When you take the first drop, the place where the ball comes to rest isn't necessarily going to be a full 2CL from its original position. (In fact it's very unlikely to be so).
So the relief area for the second penalty drop is almost certainly not going to extend a full 4CL away from the ball's original position.
It could well be that 4CL would take you out of a bush when two consecutive "proper" drops won't.

 

[bobmac]

I have a theory but I'll keep it to myself as I've hijacked your thread enough.
Apologies

 

[jim8flog]

I cannot find it in the new rules (but am sure it is there somewhere) there is a rule that says you must take each drop in turn when two areas from which you want to take relief are touching. and you cannot simply drop out of both areas at the same time. I am sure the same principle would apply in this situation.

 

[RRidges]

To those who are asking about why you can't take 4CL in one go with 2 penalty shots.
None of the rules experts have explicitly stated one obvious (to me) reason why this would be wrong, so let me take a stab at it...

When you take the first drop, the place where the ball comes to rest isn't necessarily going to be a full 2CL from its original position. (In fact it's very unlikely to be so).
So the relief area for the second penalty drop is almost certainly not going to extend a full 4CL away from the ball's original position.
It could well be that 4CL would take you out of a bush when two consecutive "proper" drops won't.

Actually, the simple answer to why you can't take 4CLlateral relief all at once is that it's not one of the relief options in 19.2c!

 

[Colin L]

To those who are asking about why you can't take 4CL in one go with 2 penalty shots.
None of the rules experts have explicitly stated one obvious (to me) reason why this would be wrong, so let me take a stab at it...

When you take the first drop, the place where the ball comes to rest isn't necessarily going to be a full 2CL from its original position. (In fact it's very unlikely to be so).
So the relief area for the second penalty drop is almost certainly not going to extend a full 4CL away from the ball's original position.
It could well be that 4CL would take you out of a bush when two consecutive "proper" drops won't.

Which is a good example of the general (and I thought explicit) point that you need a reference point for the second drop i.e. the spot where the ball comes to rest after the first drop ?