Universal Credit

[GB72]

No - because when he registered for UC he did not have the debt. The debt built up as he waited to be paid what he was owed on the assumption that he'd get paid and then be able to clear the debt.

Apologies, meant the debt owed to your son rather than any debt that he subsequently accrued.

The comments are very relevant to a universal credit question. Your son gets a job with Tesco or whoever, he no longer needs universal credit and the money he is owed can be paid to him without losing out. Situation solved.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Apologies, meant the debt owed to your son rather than any debt that he subsequently accrued.

The comments are very relevant to a universal credit question. Your son gets a job with Tesco or whoever, he no longer needs universal credit and the money he is owed can be paid to him without losing out. Situation solved.

Correct - if he can delay getting paid until he gets a job and can come off UC. The debt still builds until then.

 

[Wolf]

Council Tax is dealt with separately from UC as it is nothing to do with the DWP. The council give a large reduction - but not all is waived - you have to pay the balance out of your UC.

Tesco and Lidl - yes - OK. But available work is not really the point of my UC question.

Might wanna check your facts on that as UC does include allowance for both rent and council tax as well a priority bills. Whilst you still have to advise local council of receipt of benefit for reduction, UC can and will if requested pay your proportion of council tax and rent directly to council or landlords. Yes it comes out of the overall benefit but that is the whole premise of it being called Universal Credit it encompasses the benefit spectrum universally. Of course they don't waive all of the amount because there is still responsibility to pay these bills for anyone including those on benefit.

Your point about his debt incurred whilst waiting, seems to suggest perhaps naivety on your sons part especially as you state he knows how to manage debt. I totally get it not being ideal debt built up because UC is a ridiculously slow process, but your son could have contacted his debtors and advised of being on UC and time required to pay thus lessening the debt incurred and give him breathing space. All companies have an obligation to ensure priority bills are met first and seek amicable payment plans that don't leave him going without, this includes putting holds on debts and interest.

Lastly the part about jobs is hugely pertinent because it would have meant gaining an income that is greater than that of his UC payments, thus removing any need for UC, any upset about missing out in his money owed to him and would have been less overall stress for him and you.

You seem to think some of us on here are against him or you, similar to that of how you perceive government is unfair on him and not helping its far from it, some of us have had to suffer being on UC, being out of work and finding ways to make ends meet, we just accept that includes finding other jobs in different areas we wouldn't normally consider. Overall UC is a safety net to help the basics thats all it is meant to be, its not meant to totally replace an income just do enough to help him back on his feet and that ultimately has to come from him. I think you come across as a kind and caring parent which is IMO brilliant but the system is not at fault for his overall financial situation and not being paid on time by the company he worked for. Plus you can't seem to see the difference between savings and income. He didn't have the 1k in savings, he is getting it as income and that must rightfully be taken into account.

 

[chrisd]

No - because when he registered for UC he did not have the debt. The debt built up as he waited to be paid what he was owed on the assumption that he'd get paid and then be able to clear the debt.

So he hadn't done the work at the point he first claimed UC ?

If he had done the work and that led to the invoice before claiming UC the debt was owed, however it may not have been overdue at that point but would need to have been declared

 

[Jamesbrown]

Sounds easy doesn’t it ? Have you done any research into the cost of advertising the service ? I would be fascinated to watch a new recruit coming straight from a locksmith course and having to open a 3 star rated anit - drill , anti- snap , anti-pick , anti- bump Cylinder ! Could be very embarrassing and a very costly mistake . I’ve seen many new recruits into the trade over the last couple of decades and very, very few survive the first 9 months . I’m not saying it’s impossible , but after start up costs and entering an already saturated market , the likelihood is that you will lose money .

You can appear on google for free whenever someone searches for locksmiths in their area. Gone are the days of yellow pages.
I was offering an avenue of training which seemed reasonably priced for the initial basics to do basic jobs and with training he could get help to set up and take further training. Auto, safes try to get police and court order work one confident.
Anything’s better than claiming benefits really.

His father seems to want to help him and could be a good career if he chooses the right paths, help with money and the lad gets his head down and makes it work.

 

[DanFST]

He still has debt accumulated to be paid off. And yes - he knows how to manage debt...

Now he has the debt to service.

Which one is it?

You've already said he's paying council tax, when he doesn't need to. So I would hazard a guess he hasn't spoken to them or credit institutions, damaging himself further.

 

[DanFST]

Isn't there hep with council tax as well or is that paid for him?

Oh, and Tesco need staff and Lidl.

Yep, at least my council are offering interest free payment holidays.

Edit: You're right, you can even get support to only owe 10% a month.

 

[drdel]

A bit more than a year ago when the subject of your son's financial woes were raised I suggested that the "first loss is the best loss". As his father IMO you really need to get him and his girl friend to be working, anything is better than nowt.

Of course help with cash flow but you really need to stress this as a short term , stop gap measure until paid work is found by them. Many of us have experienced dramatic income losses and resorted to pretty horrible manual jobs (most of which are now mechanised) in order to pay the bills without the safety net of 'comfortable parents '.

The time for dreaming of a fanciful entertainment based future career is I'm gone under the bus as many theatre staff are finding.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Am I missing a point here (and if so apologies in advance) but if I was owed £1,000 then I wouldn't be leaving it alone and would be hassling through any avenue possible as it is payment for services rendered and so salary. I don't understand why he hasn't pursued this further. Secondly, regardless of whether it's "relevant to the UC and the debate" I'd be finding paid work of any type even if that's stacking shelves, and get cash coming in. At least that way there is a potential, even if UC is reduced to get a few quid set aside.

I just don't see, especially when firms were still running payroll payments for their furloughed staff there wasn't a way to get the money owed. It sounds to me (and I may be sounding overly harsh) that there was a little bit of head burying and the "money will turn up" and "we'll be ok" and not dealing with the here and now. As I say if I've missed the point especially regarding chasing the payment then sorry but why let that amount linger

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Am I missing a point here (and if so apologies in advance) but if I was owed £1,000 then I wouldn't be leaving it alone and would be hassling through any avenue possible as it is payment for services rendered and so salary. I don't understand why he hasn't pursued this further. Secondly, regardless of whether it's "relevant to the UC and the debate" I'd be finding paid work of any type even if that's stacking shelves, and get cash coming in. At least that way there is a potential, even if UC is reduced to get a few quid set aside.

I just don't see, especially when firms were still running payroll payments for their furloughed staff there wasn't a way to get the money owed. It sounds to me (and I may be sounding overly harsh) that there was a little bit of head burying and the "money will turn up" and "we'll be ok" and not dealing with the here and now. As I say if I've missed the point especially regarding chasing the payment then sorry but why let that amount linger

You've obviously never experienced chasing money off customers have you?? The construction trade is rife for it, I'm sure the arts and entertainment trade is too.

It's not as easy as you make it sound Homer, people like yourself who are paid every month whether you turn up or not never will understand or see it.

I was recently owed £4.8k by a contractor, I chased and chased it but kept getting either no response or little response. I finally got "The person who authorises payments/makes payments has been furloughed so no contractor is being paid" . I got paid 3 weeks ago but it was a worrying time for me on top of the Covid issues.

It also has a knock on affect when you're desperate for the payment and you're not getting anywhere it takes over your daily life and puts you in a poor frame of mind.
So to suggest he buried his head in the sand etc is a tad disingenuous.

 

[GB72]

You've obviously never experienced chasing money off customers have you?? The construction trade is rife for it, I'm sure the arts and entertainment trade is too.

It's not as easy as you make it sound Homer, people like yourself who are paid every month whether you turn up or not never will understand or see it.

I was recently owed £4.8k by a contractor, I chased and chased it but kept getting either no response or little response. I finally got "The person who authorises payments/makes payments has been furloughed so no contractor is being paid" . I got paid 3 weeks ago but it was a worrying time for me on top of the Covid issues.

It also has a knock on affect when you're desperate for the payment and you're not getting anywhere it takes over your daily life and puts you in a poor frame of mind.
So to suggest he buried his head in the sand etc is a tad disingenuous.

Agree with that, my wife is a health and safety contractor who did a couple of weeks work just in to lockdown re-writing a firm's policies and procedures. Took weeks to get paid despite 30 day terms and that was the difference between her being able to pay herself last month or not. It is stressful stuff.

Thing is, some companies are bad payers but good for work. As such, you cannot go in 'all guns blazing' to recover money owed as you may well never see another job off them again and they may be providing a large chunk of you annual workload (sounds like the company in this case may have been the sole source of work). Then there is the assumption that suing for the debt is easy. It is not. It takes time, costs money that you may not have at the time and you can only claim the most basic of out of pocket expenses for the process, you cannot just hand it to a solicitor as you are not expected to have legal representation in small claims matters.

Certainly think that the belied that he was burying his head in the sand may be a bit OTT.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Agree with that, my wife is a health and safety contractor who did a couple of weeks work just in to lockdown re-writing a firm's policies and procedures. Took weeks to get paid despite 30 day terms and that was the difference between her being able to pay herself last month or not. It is stressful stuff.

Thing is, some companies are bad payers but good for work. As such, you cannot go in 'all guns blazing' to recover money owed as you may well never see another job off them again and they may be providing a large chunk of you annual workload (sounds like the company in this case may have been the sole source of work). Then there is the assumption that suing for the debt is easy. It is not. It takes time, costs money that you may not have at the time and you can only claim the most basic of out of pocket expenses for the process, you cannot just hand it to a solicitor as you are not expected to have legal representation in small claims matters.

Certainly think that the belied that he was burying his head in the sand may be a bit OTT.

This is very much the case in the sector my lad works in. He gets his self-employed work off a couple of the main players in the scene - and he has to be very careful to not p' them off through pressing and hassling them for payment - and legal threats to recover monies owed might get him what he is owed, but he kisses goodbye to any future work from them. And as the businesses in the sector in the UK are not that many and form a network, I suspect that word would get around and that would be that. No matter how valid his case is - he has to be sensitive with his relationship with them as he has no 'right' to any work from them.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So he hadn't done the work at the point he first claimed UC ?

If he had done the work and that led to the invoice before claiming UC the debt was owed, however it may not have been overdue at that point but would need to have been declared

He did the work in Jan and Feb and registered for UC in March after he had invoiced for the work.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Might wanna check your facts on that as UC does include allowance for both rent and council tax as well a priority bills. Whilst you still have to advise local council of receipt of benefit for reduction, UC can and will if requested pay your proportion of council tax and rent directly to council or landlords. Yes it comes out of the overall benefit but that is the whole premise of it being called Universal Credit it encompasses the benefit spectrum universally. Of course they don't waive all of the amount because there is still responsibility to pay these bills for anyone including those on benefit.

Your point about his debt incurred whilst waiting, seems to suggest perhaps naivety on your sons part especially as you state he knows how to manage debt. I totally get it not being ideal debt built up because UC is a ridiculously slow process, but your son could have contacted his debtors and advised of being on UC and time required to pay thus lessening the debt incurred and give him breathing space. All companies have an obligation to ensure priority bills are met first and seek amicable payment plans that don't leave him going without, this includes putting holds on debts and interest.

Lastly the part about jobs is hugely pertinent because it would have meant gaining an income that is greater than that of his UC payments, thus removing any need for UC, any upset about missing out in his money owed to him and would have been less overall stress for him and you.

You seem to think some of us on here are against him or you, similar to that of how you perceive government is unfair on him and not helping its far from it, some of us have had to suffer being on UC, being out of work and finding ways to make ends meet, we just accept that includes finding other jobs in different areas we wouldn't normally consider. Overall UC is a safety net to help the basics thats all it is meant to be, its not meant to totally replace an income just do enough to help him back on his feet and that ultimately has to come from him. I think you come across as a kind and caring parent which is IMO brilliant but the system is not at fault for his overall financial situation and not being paid on time by the company he worked for. Plus you can't seem to see the difference between savings and income. He didn't have the 1k in savings, he is getting it as income and that must rightfully be taken into account.

I am not raising any issue in respect of UC in principle. I am suggesting that in the circumstances of the pandemic and the lockdown that there could have been some relaxation of some of the rules in respect of an individuals income after registering for UC (as a result of the impact on their work of the lockdown) that came about as a result of work done before the lockdown. That is the only point I am making. Nothing else.

And I am fully aware of what UC covers and what it doesn't in respect of such as Council Tax and Rent - and sadly also of the whole debt management side of life.

 

[drdel]

This is very much the case in the sector my lad works in. He gets his self-employed work off a couple of the main players in the scene - and he has to be very careful to not p' them off through pressing and hassling them for payment - and legal threats to recover monies owed might get him what he is owed, but he kisses goodbye to any future work from them. And as the businesses in the sector in the UK are not that many and form a network, I suspect that word would get around and that would be that. No matter how valid his case is - he has to be sensitive with his relationship with them as he has no 'right' to any work from them.

But the 'entertainment/performing arts' sector is in serious bother and large numbers of people will be willing to work for very little. The industry is well known for taking advantage of young people's desire with many supported by wealthy, connected parents' and often nepotism over-rides merit in appointments. A shortage of jobs in the sector will be around for some time (>1 year) so would it not be best to get a cashflow from any work? Surely one of them could find something.

'Being nice' does not pay bills; I fear you are 'pushing water uphill'

 

[chrisd]

He did the work in Jan and Feb and registered for UC in March after he had invoiced for the work.

So, the money was due (like wages or redundancy) and the UC would take that into account when working out any benefit payments and rightly so.

 

[Foxholer]

So, the money was due (like wages or redundancy) and the UC would take that into account when working out any benefit payments and rightly so.

Except - from what I understand.... Had it been paid before applying/going onto UC, it would not have been 'taken into account when working out any benefit payments'!

 

[chrisd]

Except - from what I understand.... Had it been paid before applying/going onto UC, it would not have been 'taken into account when working out any benefit payments'!

Maybe so, but rules are rules and some benefit situations and some dont - I suspect most of us have had these sort of irritations over the years!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I tend to equate UC with the Poll Tax.
Both very good simple ideas
Both brought in by the Tory Party
Both incredibly badly miss-managed by the Tory party.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Except - from what I understand.... Had it been paid before applying/going onto UC, it would not have been 'taken into account when working out any benefit payments'!

Correct - and the lockdown - for whatever reason - stopped both employer and contracting companies making payments he was due.