Top 10 misunderstood rules!?

[ManinBlack]

Don't forget the most common rule amateur golfers hardly take any notice of...…..The Advice Rule.
Probably the most abused rule going. imo of course.

A couple of years ago I played in a competition with a 4 handicap team player & his mate. On the first tee he said to his mate "What do you think, five or six iron" They then had a discussion about which club to take before hitting their shots. I cannot imagine the number of transgressions made by more inexperienced members who haven't taken the trouble to learn the basic rules.

 

[North Mimms]

I got a similar look from a new member who'd left the sticker dots on his driver face after a lesson. Told him he'd need to remove them before a competition - "I've had them on all season and I've had no trouble so far."

I assumed he left them on his driver.

I only recently discovered that this is a breach of rules after a Pro was penalised for leaving his dots on during a comp.
Now our teaching Pro has to reapply mine each time I have a swing studio lesson...

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I only recently discovered that this is a breach of rules after a Pro was penalised for leaving his dots on during a comp.
Now our teaching Pro has to reapply mine each time I have a swing studio lesson...

Better take them off my 7 iron then . Are these the dots used by Trackman or equivalent? What is the problem?

 

[Slab]

A couple of years ago I played in a competition with a 4 handicap team player & his mate. On the first tee he said to his mate "What do you think, five or six iron" They then had a discussion about which club to take before hitting their shots. I cannot imagine the number of transgressions made by more inexperienced members who haven't taken the trouble to learn the basic rules.

Just for kicks and discussion:

In this case it's not advice as their round hasn't started yet?

 

[ManinBlack]

Just for kicks and discussion:

In this case it's not advice as their round hasn't started yet?

[FONT=&quot]"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Advice[/FONT][FONT=&quot]" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a [/FONT][FONT=&quot]stroke"

Since the stroke will be made once the round is started I would say it is advice. [/FONT]

 

[Slab]

[FONT="]"[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#737272][FONT="]Advice[/FONT][FONT="]" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#737272][FONT="]stroke"

Since the stroke will be made once the round is started I would say it is advice. [/FONT]

So I'd counter that the rules of golf do not apply until the round is underway (except the one about arriving for start time, if that's an actual rule and practicing on the course) so it doesn't matter whether its advice or not; so I agree it is advice... but not punishable

What if they chatted about club selection on the range during warm-up, penalty or not? If not at what point would you say any RoG penalty applies?
As they walk to teeing ground, only when they stand on teeing ground, within 20 meters of teeing ground or something else?

The RoG say the round starts when a stroke is made from the first hole played (or words to that effect) so if neither has tee'd off cant they chat about this sort of thing and still not breach a rule?

 

[Kellfire]

Better take them off my 7 iron then . Are these the dots used by Trackman or equivalent? What is the problem?

It makes the club face non-conforming. Have a google for Ben Crane when he left them on two of his clubs.

 

[Colin L]

Just for kicks and discussion:

In this case it's not advice as their round hasn't started yet?

That's correct. Rule 8-1 prohibits asking for or giving advice during a "stipulated round". Your round begins when you make your first stroke and so the players in ManinBlack's illustration were free to discuss with and advise each other on anything concerning the round not yet started.

 

[Kellfire]

That's correct. Rule 8-1 prohibits asking for or giving advice during a "stipulated round". Your round begins when you make your first stroke and so the players in ManinBlack's illustration were free to discuss with and advise each other on anything concerning the round not yet started.

Is the decision making surrounding the making of that first stroke not also part of the stipulated round thus it's a penalty?

 

[Kellfire]

The RoG say the round starts when a stroke is made from the first hole played

Which rule? I'm either blind or it doesn't say that. I fully accept I may be blind.

 

[Orikoru]

Is the decision making surrounding the making of that first stroke not also part of the stipulated round thus it's a penalty?

Surely for the rule to be taken seriously it must include standing on the first tee. Otherwise you're allowed to discuss clubs for that tee shot but not the other 17. How would that make sense?

I think it's a silly rule anyway. It's so easily flouted. You can have a look at what club they're holding, or what club is missing from their bag, you just can't open your mouth and ask them? Bit of a pointless rule if you ask me. (That's not to say I don't abide by it - I do, because rules are rules - I just think it's silly.)

 

[Slab]

Which rule? I'm either blind or it doesn't say that. I fully accept I may be blind.

Sorry my messed up terminology; Colin came in with the proper wording " Rule 8-1 prohibits asking for or giving advice during a "stipulated round"


So that rule only applies once your round has started. And since a stipulated round has to have a universal start point its when you make a stroke

 

[Slab]

Surely for the rule to be taken seriously it must include standing on the first tee. Otherwise you're allowed to discuss clubs for that tee shot but not the other 17. How would that make sense?

I think it's a silly rule anyway. It's so easily flouted. You can have a look at what club they're holding, or what club is missing from their bag, you just can't open your mouth and ask them? Bit of a pointless rule if you ask me. (That's not to say I don't abide by it - I do, because rules are rules - I just think it's silly.)

Wouldn't you just end up with weird situation like a base in baseball i.e if your foot on the teeing ground your round has started... but then what happens if you walk back to your bag to change clubs or one person is on the teeing ground and another is not, can the one that isn't still give advice

 

[Kellfire]

And since a stipulated round has to have a universal start point its when you make a stroke

The rules don't say that, that I can see. If the rule doesn't say it, it's subjective.

For me, a round starts when I am on the course and getting ready to play the first hole.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And just on the advice question - the original post raising the subject clearly - and I can on conclude deliberately - stated that the 4 handicapper was a team player - was the other guy a member of the same team? That changes things, does it not, in respect of such discussions being held after the round has started.

 

[backwoodsman]

Decision 3/3 confirms that in strokeplay "a competitor has begun his stipulated round when he makes his first stroke in that round". So up till he makes the first stroke, he can do pretty much as he pleases (unless it is expressly forbidden by the rules, that is - eg practice on the course as an example).

Does in my mind though make it a bit bizarre regarding "advice" about how to make that first stroke.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It makes the club face non-conforming. Have a google for Ben Crane when he left them on two of his clubs.

Not trying to be provocative. How does it make it non conforming. The stickers that show the ball strike I get are wrong but dots that a trackman picks up, how does that affect the club? It doesn't help the golfer.

 

[Orikoru]

Not trying to be provocative. How does it make it non conforming. The stickers that show the ball strike I get are wrong but dots that a trackman picks up, how does that affect the club? It doesn't help the golfer.

Probably could be seen as extra guidance, similar to how you can't put an alignment stick down and stuff.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If you were to let stickers be left on the club face how do you define what can't be stuck to the club face.

Often with the rules of golf what might seem a silly rule or restriction is only there to prevent more serious attempts at circumventing/bending/avoiding rules and doing things contrary to the spirit of how we play the game and the rules...

 

[Colin L]

Back to the advice question. Now that we've established and referenced that advice is prohibited only during a stipulated round and that the round starts when you make your first stroke, I hope everyone is convinced that the two players in the OP's description were not in breach of 8-1 by discussing their club selection. On the same basis, if you are in a competition which does not allow the use of a distance measuring device, you could stand on the 1st tee before you play and use one to measure distances to anything on the first hole.

It is important to have the start of a round precisely identified so that it is clear, simple and the same for everyone. Defining the start of your playing a round as the first stroke you make is all of that. What else would be so clear? Or, if it weren't defined at all, what would we make of my sitting in the clubhouse with a friend having coffee before my tee time and discussing how to play the course, or getting some swing guidance from the pro on the practice ground?