Too shocked to comment on a breach?

[IanM]

I forgot to mention this when it happened. A couple of weeks ago, @Crazyface and I were playing in a Pairs Open. On the first green one of the other Pair was about to putt and tapped his ball with his putter and moved it a fraction to the side. He then proceeded to putt out. A couple of holes later he did similar and I was looking directly at him and he said, just moving it out of the hole it is in. I was too surprised to say anything.

I mentioned it to CF, and sure enough few holes later he did it again. We looked at each other and didn't really know what to say! Both us and them were no where near the prizes and it was all nice and chatty... and I didn't want to create a scene, but it was really weird. I know what he could and should have done, and he didn't really get any advantage out of it. Also, the greens were very very good, so I've no idea what he was doing.

Very odd indeed. I am kicking myself for not asking him about it!

 

[Oddsocks]

Once was enough, although no gain he broke the rules. Next you’ll be playing preferred lies

 

[IanM]

Next you’ll be playing preferred lies

On the green!

 

[Foxholer]

Yikes! Your shock is understandable!
I'd have mentioned/discussed it, at least, to his PP after the round, if not to both of them on the first green!

 

[Oddsocks]

On the green!

Isn’t that standard

 

[rulie]

In stroke play events, players are obligated to protect the rest of the field by applying the Rules. Not sure that your action (or lack of action) met that responsibility.

 

[salfordlad]

In stroke play events, players are obligated to protect the rest of the field by applying the Rules. Not sure that your action (or lack of action) met that responsibility.

This is a common challenge. In regular, local club golf, as opposed to playing in significant or Open events or when officiating, on occasions I've not raised an issue during the round but have had a quiet chat afterwards to ensure the player has no uncertainty about which behaviours will have consequences if repeated. But I agree that just turning a blind eye is a non-trivial problem.

 

[John Evans 9]

I forgot to mention this when it happened. A couple of weeks ago, @Crazyface and I were playing in a Pairs Open. On the first green one of the other Pair was about to putt and tapped his ball with his putter and moved it a fraction to the side. He then proceeded to putt out. A couple of holes later he did similar and I was looking directly at him and he said, just moving it out of the hole it is in. I was too surprised to say anything.

I mentioned it to CF, and sure enough few holes later he did it again. We looked at each other and didn't really know what to say! Both us and them were no where near the prizes and it was all nice and chatty... and I didn't want to create a scene, but it was really weird. I know what he could and should have done, and he didn't really get any advantage out of it. Also, the greens were very very good, so I've no idea what he was doing.

Very odd indeed. I am kicking myself for not asking him about it!

You should have definitely said something straightaway. I suppose the tap could be counted as a stroke or penalised as improving a lie - I’m not sure which would have been more appropriate. But to say nothing is hopeless. You really had no choice but to call out a breaking of the rules.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You should have definitely said something straightaway. I suppose the tap could be counted as a stroke or penalised as improving a lie - I’m not sure which would have been more appropriate. But to say nothing is hopeless. You really had no choice but to call out a breaking of the rules.

Especially as in this case the player may have experience of being allowed to do what he did - either at his course or elsewhere - when, for instance, tining of greens may have left indentations in the green from which relief is given under such as a temp local rule for such circumstances. The player might mistakenly think such relief is available at all times (I’m being generous).

 

[salfordlad]

You should have definitely said something straightaway. I suppose the tap could be counted as a stroke or penalised as improving a lie - I’m not sure which would have been more appropriate. But to say nothing is hopeless. You really had no choice but to call out a breaking of the rules.

Not a stroke, but "moving it out of a hole" is a breach of rule 8 for improving the conditions affecting the stroke. On the putting green, if that "hole" is damage, the player is allowed to mark, lift and repair the damage then replace the ball. If it is natural wear or old aeration hole issues, no relief but in the latter case Committee can declare the aeration holes as GUR, which would require a place, not a nudge with a club. This person's behaviour is unlike anything the rules permit.

 

[Steven Rules]

......which would require a place, not a nudge with a club.

Well said. There is too much going on with this chap. Someone needs to say something to him.

Interpretation Replace/1 - Ball May Not Be Replaced with a Club
For a ball to be replaced in a right way, it must be set down and let go. This means the player must use his or her hand to put the ball back in play on the spot it was lifted or moved from.
For example, if a player lifts his or her ball from the putting green and sets it aside, the player must not replace the ball by rolling it to the required spot with a club. If he or she does so, the ball is not replaced in the right way and the player gets one penalty stroke under Rule 14.2b(2) (How Ball Must Be Replaced) if the mistake is not corrected before the stroke is made.

 

[IanM]

Yep... it was one of those situations where I had no idea what to say... pathetic on my part I know!

"What the bleep are you doing?" would have been in order! #bottler!

 

[salfordlad]

Yep... it was one of those situations where I had no idea what to say... pathetic on my part I know!

"What the bleep are you doing?" would have been in order! #bottler!

There are valuable things to learn and be reminded of here for anyone going through this thread.

 

[Steven Rules]

"What the bleep are you doing?" would have been in order!

My standard line in situations like this is: "What is the rule that allows you to do that?"

I most recently used it a couple of months ago on a player in another group who did something blatantly wrong when he thought nobody was looking. After a bit of a coversation with him about the wrongdoing I offered to go over to his marker (who was quite oblivious to the wrongdoing and my subsequent conversation with the wrongdoer) and explain that the player had incurred a penalty that needed to be added to his score for the hole. The player very sheepishly said there would be no need for me to do that and he would do it himself. I assume he did but I didn't ever follow up to ckeck.

I also informally mentioned the incident to the club captain some time afterwards.

 

[IanM]

My standard line in situations like this is: "What is the rule that allows you to do that?"

In this example the guy wasn't thinking "no one was looking" he was just behaving like he playing a mess about with his mates, rather than in a comp. Spookily, if I have spotted a "leather wedge" or similar, I probably would have been angry enough to call it out!

@Crazyface hasnt been in to comment yet... he was as shocked as I

 

[Steven Rules]

In this example the guy wasn't thinking "no one was looking"

The line would work just as well in your example.

 

[IanM]

I think I would have said... "you can't really do that you know" and then gauge the reaction!

Giving him the rule number, subsection and decisions number may have inflamed the situation!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Not a rule break…but on Saturday as I noticed a playing companion shove his trolley off the path and through the heather I asked what he thought the rope cordoning off the heather from the path with the sign ‘No Trolleys in the Heather’ suggested to him. I then rather bluntly but with a smile said ‘Do not do again‘. Sometimes I wonder.

 

[Crazyface]

In this example the guy wasn't thinking "no one was looking" he was just behaving like he playing a mess about with his mates, rather than in a comp. Spookily, if I have spotted a "leather wedge" or similar, I probably would have been angry enough to call it out!

@Crazyface hasnt been in to comment yet... he was as shocked as I

Here now!! Ian mentioned this to me as we were playing and I had not noticed it happen at that point. I started to watch the guy on the greens from that point and sure enough a few holes later he did the thing as described. I was stunned, literally, into silence. I stared in disbelief at Ian. I'd never seen this done before and the guy did it in such a casual way you'd have thought it was ok to do it. I'm ashamed to say I didn't react and point the error out, but as Ian said, they weren't in with a shout. The scarry thing is, he'll be doing this at his own club and no one is pointing it out there either. What other rules are being broken? Flippin Eck Ian I'd forgotten about this. My head's a mess now.

 

[Swango1980]

Would a "careful mate, you can't move your ball like that" been at least reasonable enough, short of dishing out the applicable penalty. At least it would then be highlighted to them. If they did it thereafter, they could have no argument if they were penalised. Without saying anything, then it is clear they are ignorant of the rule, and will continue to do it until someone else finally points it out to them.