Times must be hard....

[KeefG]

....RBS helped with the finances I believe.....

Thats a kiss if death if ever there was one

 

[cm_qs]

Madandra,

Wishaw still has 2 year waiting list

Was 6 and half years for me to get in ! If you want to get on that list then PM me if you need a form / signatures.

And Bellshill has spread their joining fee over 5 years which makes the annual price £550 for 5 years.

What happens if you chuck it after year 1 or 2? do you become liable to pay the whole fee? This would make it a leaving fee rather than a joining fee.
If not then £550 a year is what I'm paying at Wishaw so maybe not it's such a bad deal at that.

Have you considered Carluke or Carnwath or any of the courses out that direction?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think when we did a poll of most expensive annual fees Ascot came out as one of the most expensive and I said at the time it was probably way too much for what it was but was still competitive when comparing local neighbours (The Berkshire, Windlesham, Wentworth, Mill Ride etc)

I think with bar levy, locker hire and fees it was around £1350. I play once a weekend minimum say 45 weekends per year (45 rounds). I normally play at least twice per week in the summer (say another 20 rounds per year). Add on another 15 rounds for flexi days and annual leave and another 15 for competitions and club matches.

That means I'm playing 95 rounds per year (I actually played 122 times at Ascot last year although that was because I was off in the summer and 101 the year before)

Simple maths 1350 / 95 = 14.21 per round which is pretty good in anyones book for a course I can roll up and play at any time. Add in the amount of time I practice up there, use the clubhouse etc and it suddenly becomes exceptional value for money.

 

[Imurg]

And that's what you've got to look at.If you can get your cost per round under £20 you're laughing.
One year at mine, I played most days during the summer due to redundancy. At the end of the year the Secretary worked out that each round had cost me prcisely £3.87!

 

[GB72]

Have to say it that golf was a saviour during my period of redundancy. I may have complained about the cost at the beginning of the year but had the funds so signed up. During my 3 months out of work I could get 4 hours of entertainment every day at no cost to me. I cannot argue that my current green fees are good value (£550.00 for a private members clubs) and I probably pay less than £10.00 a round based on that. It is just the further £550.00 joining fee that grates a little.

 

[Tommo21]

I play at “the Royal” and I’m gutted they have cut the joining fee to £1. It’s a bit like buying a car for say £15000 for the seller to cut the price to £7000 a week later. It instantly devalues what I’ve got. My information is, Royal Musselburgh has lost 100 members this year and the first thing I would have done was see every single one of them to find out the reasons why and what can be done to help these people. At least it would give the council a good idea of what’s happening. I think about 30 new members have joined at a earlier reduced fee of £300. I wonder what they are thinking after paying that for it now to be £1.

I paid nearly £1200 for the 2008 season and now that’s halved and worse still I’ve already paid 580 for this year, subs are payable by the end of January. That’s another thing that needs sorted, it should be the end of march. January is too near to Christmas and because something has worked in the past doesn’t mean to say it will continue.

I really like the royal and I’ve made a lot of good friends there already but they need to wake up and smell the coffee and look after existing members. They’re now concentrating on new members and I can see a lot of people leaving next year because of what’s happening now. I hope I’m wrong and I really wonder if they have thought of this.

If my subscription form had some kind of questionnaire or asking members their intentions for the coming season they could have some idea before hand. Members are customers but if you don’t pay your subs by a certain time you have deemed to have resigned, it’s as blunt as that. Now if the form said something like “please contact the club if you’re thinking of leaving”, that seems to be a much warmer way to treat customers IMO.

 

[USER1999]

My club has just put out a huge questionnaire for all the members to answer, to give an idea of who the members who use the club are, and what they expect for their money. Clubs need to identify their core members, and see to it they are happy. Without them, there is no club.

 

[andiritchie]

I left my old club in Jan after a year as a full member i was there as a junior.It was too expensive and i had to wear a blazer and tie after 6 in the clubhouse

I been looking around and found a club which is having some good work done on it which works out at £7.69 a week

It has a 9 hole pitch and putt usga greens 18 hole course under going work 14 holes complete and a range

Not bad at all really

 

[DCB]

I think the days of someone playing at a club for their golfing life are long gone. People move about too much with their jobs to stay in one place all their days. I've been a member of my club for alost 25 years. I see it as an integral part of my life.

However, I think clubs are making life harder for themselves in their aproach to keeping their membership. Whilst a joining fee is now a considerable amount, in some cases a very considerable amount, it does tend to make you stay at the club you paid all that money to join. With the reduction in joining fees the clubs are finding a more transient membership who will try a club for a year and then move on to another club next year when the 'new' club has a better deal on. There are even regulars on here who seem to advocate moving club if it appears better elsewhere.(Not picking on anyone honest). A local club, Glencorse, are currently doing a no joining fee deal, 5 mins from door to door, I could walk it in 20 mins, ideal you might think. But I enjoy it where I am. It's my club !

We've debated the rights and wrongs of joining fees before with no real conclusion, but I do think that in the long term, players will move from club to club far more frequently that they did before. This will have a knock-on effect with clubs creating budgets for the next year being unable to forecast exactly how many members they will have to meet the income required for said budget.

Visitor/Day Ticket golfers have already taken huge chunks out of club profits by making use of 2 for 1 vouchers etc. Clubs fearing lack of visitors are scared not to be involved in such a scheme in case they don't get footfall.

Scary times indeed.

ps

If I lived to the East of Edinburgh, I would certainly be interested in Royal Musselburghs ofer, it's a good course. Used for regional qualifying for the Open in recent times.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

On a slight tangent, my course being "Royal" has entered into a number of recipricol arrangements with other Royal clubs in the UK and abroad which allows club members to get free or hugely decreased green fees. I'm wondering if in this economic climate whether there could be an argument for twinning clubs in different parts of the country in the same way towns have twins abroad. It would certainly add some interest and may generate more revenue as visitors come and spend money in the bar etc.

 

[Herbie]

I have never understood why golf is so expensive down south. Ok, the staff earn more, but there aren't that many of them. The cost to run a course can't be that disimilar, grass needs cutting, fertilising, etc whether north or south of the border. It remains a mystery to me, unless the Northern boys have a lot more members, but don't play as much, so there are more of them per club paying subs.

I read that Loch Lomond is in trouble. Ha. No green fees, no societies, very limited membership. Wonder why it doesn't work as a business plan. I for one would love to see it go bust. Hopefully it would then be run by someone more enlightened.

I tend to agree with your comments there murph except the idea that there may be more members up north I think its the case down south that limited number of courses in the highly populated southern areas creates a bumper crop of members and an even bigger number on waiting lists, so the question 'Why is it so much more expensive?' in my mind makes that question even more difficult to justify.

 

[Cernunnos]

I think the days of someone playing at a club for their golfing life are long gone. People move about too much with their jobs to stay in one place all their days. I've been a member of my club for alost 25 years. I see it as an integral part of my life.

However, I think clubs are making life harder for themselves in their aproach to keeping their membership. Whilst a joining fee is now a considerable amount, in some cases a very considerable amount, it does tend to make you stay at the club you paid all that money to join. With the reduction in joining fees the clubs are finding a more transient membership who will try a club for a year and then move on to another club next year when the 'new' club has a better deal on. There are even regulars on here who seem to advocate moving club if it appears better elsewhere.(Not picking on anyone honest). A local club, Glencorse, are currently doing a no joining fee deal, 5 mins from door to door, I could walk it in 20 mins, ideal you might think. But I enjoy it where I am. It's my club !

We've debated the rights and wrongs of joining fees before with no real conclusion, but I do think that in the long term, players will move from club to club far more frequently that they did before. This will have a knock-on effect with clubs creating budgets for the next year being unable to forecast exactly how many members they will have to meet the income required for said budget.

Visitor/Day Ticket golfers have already taken huge chunks out of club profits by making use of 2 for 1 vouchers etc. Clubs fearing lack of visitors are scared not to be involved in such a scheme in case they don't get footfall.

Scary times indeed.

ps

If I lived to the East of Edinburgh, I would certainly be interested in Royal Musselburghs ofer, it's a good course. Used for regional qualifying for the Open in recent times.

Good arguments DCB. Must say I like to try different places & don't like to be tied to any one club unless its particularly special. The irony is I can't afford to join the few clubs I'd actually like to stay at for a long time.

Then again the club I was with for a couple of seasons I am considering gong back to, though not sure whether I'll need to pay a joining fee or not again, if so then I probably wont & simply join the municiples in Derby or Go with another club I really like localy (Uttoxeter) that I know I would happily stay with, as the fees are reasonable & the course a challenge.

If I was living down where my parents have moved to I know exactly which club I'd be joining & know I'd be staying at that club too. The irony is its not the one they are members of. Its convinient for them & a nice club, but its not the club for me.

I have played several clubs around the country where I'd happily be a member of if I lived there. And ironically they charge a fee I'd pay. Infact I'd even pay a small entrance fee for those if I lived there.

But I'm certainly not going to pay a £1200 entrance fee or £600+ a year fees.

I might pay a £500 entrance & £300 fees, or a £50 or £100 entrance fee & £450 a year. But I can only afford or warrent so much.

And there is more to attracting or keeping members than good fees.

As for the 2for1 issue. I as a solo golfer cannot turn up with a 2for1 voucher & get on for half price or 2 rounds at a course in a day. Its not always convinient to phone round mates every time we fancy a game of golf. Wouldn't it be better if clubs simply stopped taking 2for1 vouchers & charged a more reasonable green fee. As many courses charge way too much for green fees.

But as I say clubs who wish to attract & keep members need to make a convinient atmosphere for their members to play golf without all the hassle & politics some clubs suffer with.

 

[DCB]

Just had a thought on the original post. I hope cm_qs was in transit in the Eastern half of the country because if he was back in Wishaw, then Royal Musselburgh are looking at the wrong target audience to their advertising. Radio advertising can't be cheap but when you do go down that route you really want to hit your target audience.

 

[Tommo21]

Just had a thought on the original post. I hope cm_qs was in transit in the Eastern half of the country because if he was back in Wishaw, then Royal Musselburgh are looking at the wrong target audience to their advertising. Radio advertising can't be cheap but when you do go down that route you really want to hit your target audience.

I think the radio satation in question covers the central belt of scotland, edinburgh and lothians through to glasgow.

 

[cm_qs]

Just had a thought on the original post. I hope cm_qs was in transit in the Eastern half of the country because if he was back in Wishaw, then Royal Musselburgh are looking at the wrong target audience to their advertising. Radio advertising can't be cheap but when you do go down that route you really want to hit your target audience.

I was driving over the Kingston Bridge in Glasgow when I heard it. But as tommo says the radio station covers the entire central belt.

 

[John_Findlay]

I've just "downgraded" my membership to save some cash this year.

I got my renewal in this week for my annual subs at Craigielaw for my 5 day membership there and thought long and hard about whether to suspend or renew. Having paid £750 joining fee 4 years ago I'm reluctant to sever all ties to the club, especially after making so many friends there. However, at £495 for the year and the amount of golf I play at other courses with friends I wasn't sure I could justify the expense at the moment.

Fortunately our club has an adjoining 6 hole par 3 course. The annual fee for unlimited golf there is £135 so I've gone for that option for this year. So at least when I get the urge to hit a ball I can pop down and work on my short game, which needs desperate attention. Probably work out cheaper than going up to the range, too. Use of the practice range is free, too, but I would need to pay full fees to play the full course.

I see it as a better alternative to not being a member at all, as I'm pretty loyal to the club and it has great facilities. Hopefully, credit crunch permitting, I can start up my full membership again next April. I'm actually looking forward to concentrating on my wedge game for a year!

 

[KeefG]

I've just drove pat Garforth Golf Club in Leeds and discovered a newly erected sign outside that says "Membership Available" in big letters, then a bit more gumph underneath and then at the bottom of the sign it states "we will make you very welcome" in big red letters!

It comes across to me as borderline begging

According to one of the lads who works for me, there was a waiting list to get in Garforth only 2 years ago.

 

[madandra]

Craig, I live in New Stevenston and Carluke and Carnwath are just that bit too far for a bounce game or medal. I live 1.3 miles from the 1st tee at Colvilles and I have always played well there so am just wanting some reasurances that the joining fee is here to stay.

In regards to Bellshill, its 2 miles away and if I left after a year they could whistle for the rest of their joining fee. The big problem there is the last 3 holes, walking away from the clubhouse again at 15 isnt a good feeling.