Time and Motion Studies

[Deleted member 16999]

I take it’s based on a 4Ball not losing a single ball and taking 5 minutes to search for it..
15 minutes for a Par 5 and 10 minutes for a Par 3.
Is this for a social round or comp or is there no difference expected?

 

[shortgame]

Not all courses are the same though even ones the same length can vary enormously. Of the 2 courses I most regularly play, one is a gentle course on a small bit of land with little rough, takes approx 3.5 hours for a 4 ball. The other is a longer championship course with brutal rough, heather, deadly greens and a few blind shots and takes nearer 4.5 hours on average

It's just the way it is

I'd bet the average player at the slower course is lower than at the quicker course too

 

[Jamesbrown]

I was playing in a comp at the grove at the weekend. A week before the comp we was sent a sheet with the pace of play expectations.

We where given an allowance of 4 hours 15 off the blacks and if we was to fall behind we would be under a 40 second shot clock and observed.

I’d like to see that at my club.

 

[Jacko_G]

One of the biggest issues which hasn't been mentioned is Muppets leaving their bags or trolley in the wrong place. For instance at the front of the green or at the opposite side from where the tee is.

They then putt out, realise that their bag/trolley is miles away walk back to said bag/trolley where they proceed to fart about with a putter cover, put the putter away then walk round the green to join their more considerate playing partners who are already on the next tee.

 

[ademac]

Some of the rules dont really help with slow play.
5 minutes to look for a lost ball!
Does that 5 minutes start from when you start looking or start walking from where you played the shot?
Its a long time to look for a ball in my opinion, if you cant find it in 2 minutes then tough luck, be more accurate.

 

[Crazyface]

I know on here this has been covered many times and im sure someone can put up the link.

What really bugs me is people who want to rush a round of golf.

Most people in life rush around like flaming lunatics and take it to the golf course.

Golf is a game to be enjoyed,and enjoyed in other peoples company.
I believe 2 of my favorite rounds ever were 5 hours and in perfect company,cant think of many things better.

Is correct. BUT, on comp day (Sunday) after 4 hours and with 3 holes still to play I could smell the dinner and just wanted to be home. With the 16th next to the car park it was really tempting!!!!

 

[Orikoru]

Some of the rules dont really help with slow play.
5 minutes to look for a lost ball!
Does that 5 minutes start from when you start looking or start walking from where you played the shot?
Its a long time to look for a ball in my opinion, if you cant find it in 2 minutes then tough luck, be more accurate.

Isn't it being changed to 3 minutes anyway?

 

[Orikoru]

I don't get these clocks.
Let's say you get there 15 minutes quicker,do you slow down?
On the other hand if your slower but you can't speed up.
Pointless imo

Yeah I don't get it really. If the whole course is bunched up with 4 balls on a comp day, and you've kept up with a group but you're 15 minutes behind what the clock says, what are you gonna do?

 

[patricks148]

Not all courses are the same though even ones the same length can vary enormously. Of the 2 courses I most regularly play, one is a gentle course on a small bit of land with little rough, takes approx 3.5 hours for a 4 ball. The other is a longer championship course with brutal rough, heather, deadly greens and a few blind shots and takes nearer 4.5 hours on average

It's just the way it is

I'd bet the average player at the slower course is lower than at the quicker course too

Good point.
my place there is very little walk between green and the next tee, Royal Dornoch is the same length as ours but takes slightly longer to get round as there are a few walks between tee's ( even when its not rammed with yanks who take 5 hours plus) but only maybe a 15min longer at most

 

[r0wly86]

Don't know how you can do an accurate analysis.

For instance, depending on where I am in relation to my PP I am sorting out my shot and alignment etc as they are taking their shot. Others will wait for the PP to finish playing their shot before starting. Even played with an old boy once as a junior who got apoplectic if you were even in front of him when he was taking his shot, even if you were 40-50 yards to the right or left (not an enjoyable round).

Agree with Jacko-G the amount of people who waste time with silly little things. Leaving bags on the wrong side, not playing a provisional. Marking the card on the green etc

I can generally deal with slow players if they are playing as quick as they can, but when they are fannying about, wasting time they can easily not, then it irks me

 

[nickjdavis]

Yeah I don't get it really. If the whole course is bunched up with 4 balls on a comp day, and you've kept up with a group but you're 15 minutes behind what the clock says, what are you gonna do?

You cant do anything....but somewhere up ahead of you there will be a group who are out of position - behind schedule with nobody in front of them.

 

[Grant85]

I think the natural flow of a golf course is very important to pace of play.

The two clubs I played at as a member. One was a shorter course, with only 1 tee that was more than a few paces away from the previous green.

The other was a longer course but with several tees quite a way back from the previous green, and in 2 cases 100 metre walks. I felt this course took a lot longer to play, and play was often held up on the 1st tee during competition days as people were looking for their balls in rough to the right of the 1st fairway and 1st green.

I also agree about the tee times. I believe it is proven that having games tee off closer to each other actually holds up the course and results in slower rounds.

I'm also for trying to reduce spots where balls are easily lost and result in much time spent looking. Sure, have rough as a penalty, have trees that create problems - but having unmown hay within easy hitting distance for handicap golfers is going to slow down a competition day.

Maybe get into the habit of having more lateral hazards with red stakes on courses where people can take a drop rather than spending 5 minutes looking for a ball they probably can't get much club on anyway.

Remember it's a hobby first and a competition second.

 

[Grant85]

Also - it's just not fair or possible to penalise groups who come in outside of a time limit.

Some groups might have guys in them shooting 100 and missing fairways. Others might have 3 single figure guys going round in sub 80.

 

[Jacko_G]

Yeah I don't get it really. If the whole course is bunched up with 4 balls on a comp day, and you've kept up with a group but you're 15 minutes behind what the clock says, what are you gonna do?

You blame the first group out who are clearly not keeping to the pace of play which is causing a backlog throughout the course.

 

[shortgame]

Also - it's just not fair or possible to penalise groups who come in outside of a time limit.

Some groups might have guys in them shooting 100 and missing fairways. Others might have 3 single figure guys going round in sub 80.

Yeah. And what about if you've been kept waiting all the way round, then on 17 and 18 you lose a ball or two so come in slower than the groups who've held you up for 16 holes!

Had that happen more than once!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

You blame the first group out who are clearly not keeping to the pace of play which is causing a backlog throughout the course.

Absolute rubbish, our comps go from 7:00am to 3:00pm in the summer and if someone causes an issue who tee’d off at 10, blame those who went off first! :rofl:

 

[patricks148]

Yeah. And what about if you've been kept waiting all the way round, then on 17 and 18 you lose a ball or two so come in slower than the groups who've held you up for 16 holes!

Had that happen more than once!

funny you say that we have a few guys who go out before us and always hold the course up until 17 and 18 of course, they then get a shift on and don't see them for dust and it always looks like others have held things up. everyone moans about them so the club are well aware.

 

[Jacko_G]

Absolute rubbish, our comps go from 7:00am to 3:00pm in the summer and if someone causes an issue who tee’d off at 10, blame those who went off first! :rofl:

It's not really difficult to Police. I was responding to a specific question about a full course being held up from the off.

Sadly so many people accept that golf is 4 hours plus. It shouldn't have to be but seeing some of the responses on here it's clear that people believe that it's an acceptable time.

I don't run round a course, especially with my feet but I know when to play, when to hit a provisional ball, when to pick up, where to leave my bag, when to wave someone through.

We've all experienced a disaster hole or two in a competition but knowing when to play a provisional or when to allow the group behind through can save as much as 20 minutes to groups further down the field.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It's not really difficult to Police. I was responding to a specific question about a full course being held up from the off.

Sadly so many people accept that golf is 4 hours plus. It shouldn't have to be but seeing some of the responses on here it's clear that people believe that it's an acceptable time.

I don't run round a course, especially with my feet but I know when to play, when to hit a provisional ball, when to pick up, where to leave my bag, when to wave someone through.

We've all experienced a disaster hole or two in a competition but knowing when to play a provisional or when to allow the group behind through can save as much as 20 minutes to groups further down the field.

If you read what you actually answered he didn’t say backed up from the off, you’ve presumed that.

The rest of your post I 100% agree with.

 

[shortgame]

funny you say that we have a few guys who go out before us and always hold the course up until 17 and 18 of course, they then get a shift on and don't see them for dust and it always looks like others have held things up. everyone moans about them so the club are well aware.

Had that too!

And guys who rush as fast as they can when they're behind you, pressuring you to call them through...

... who then once once through, play at a snail's pace holding you up!