Thoughts?

[Deleted member 16999]

what would happen in none golf life when a person like Johnson is let out of prison, on the register and happens to be in a situation - like a supermarket, restaurant etc and a 15 year old walks down the same isle/sits opposite at a table?

Those risks are taken on behalf of the general public by the probation service I’d imagine, again it is different to him applying to join a private club.

He could easily be on a golf course unattended and unseen by anyone else, chances of him being the only person in a shop or restaurant is probably nil and those premises would probably be covered by cameras.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Those risks are taken on behalf of the general public by the probation service I’d imagine, again it is different to him applying to join a private club.

He could easily be on a golf course unattended and unseen by anyone else, chances of him being the only person in a shop or restaurant is probably nil and those premises would probably be covered by cameras.

He’s unlikely to reoffend, isn’t he?

He was guilty of abusing his power as a footballer and a celebrity by grooming a teenager. I doubt he particularly has a thing for underaged girls per se. He has a thing for sticking his bits about.

His opportunity to exploit those that were hero worshipping him has gone with his conviction.

He fully deserved everything he got as a punishment, but his crime doesn’t mean he’s a predator looking to groom teenage girls at every opportunity.

He’s not a paedophile with a psychological problem that means he finds prepubescent girls sexually attractive. That’s a very, very different situation.

I can see plenty of arguments that he shouldn’t be allowed to join a private members golf club; I don’t see the risk of him bumping into a teenage girl on an adjacent hole as being one of them.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

He’s unlikely to reoffend, isn’t he?

He was guilty of abusing his power as a footballer and a celebrity by grooming a teenager. I doubt he particularly has a thing for underaged girls per se. He has a thing for sticking his bits about.

His opportunity to exploit those that were hero worshipping him has gone with his conviction.

He fully deserved everything he got as a punishment, but his crime doesn’t mean he’s a predator looking to groom teenage girls at every opportunity.

He’s not a paedophile with a psychological problem that means he finds prepubescent girls sexually attractive. That’s a very, very different situation.

I can see plenty of arguments that he shouldn’t be allowed to join a private members golf club; I don’t see the risk of him bumping into a teenage girl on an adjacent hole as being one of them.

I hope you’re spot on, but you seem to be making arguments for him, maybe you have an insight to his particular case, I’ve not said he will reoffend or is even likely to, my pov from beginning to end has been to ensure the Club has done everything to cover the children and themselves.
They should be the priority not his mental state or classification as what type of sex offender he is or his rights.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

I hope you’re spot on, but you seem to be making arguments for him, maybe you have an insight to his particular case, I’ve not said he will reoffend or is even likely to, my pov from beginning to end has been to ensure the Club has done everything to cover the children and themselves.
They should be the priority not his mental state or classification as what type of sex offender he is or his rights.

I agree the club should do everything they reasonably can to safeguard children, that goes without saying.

I think we disagree on what safeguards can realistically be put in place.

If he was looking to run the kids section, that would be a problem (understatement). Kids walking the course when he might also be walking the course is no different to a trip to the park, walking down a quiet road and countless other things teenagers do every day. For that reason, I don’t think it’s really a risk that the golf club needs to manage.

 

[User20204]

but you seem to be making arguments for him,.

Sorry but I have to disagree, he is making some very rational comments in regards the offender. The poster stated he isn't a paedophile, yet some on here would have you believe he is roaming the streets actively seeking pre school children to serve his lust which is utterly absurd.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I agree the club should do everything they reasonably can to safeguard children, that goes without saying.

I think we disagree on what safeguards can realistically be put in place.

If he was looking to run the kids section, that would be a problem (understatement). Kids walking the course when he might also be walking the course is no different to a trip to the park, walking down a quiet road and countless other things teenagers do every day. For that reason, I don’t think it’s really a risk that the golf club needs to manage.

Biggest difference to me is that the Golf Course is private land and therefore the owners responsibility.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Sorry but I have to disagree, he is making some very rational comments in regards the offender. The poster stated he isn't a paedophile, yet some on here would have you believe he is roaming the streets actively seeking pre school children to serve his lust which is utterly absurd.

My answer to him was that I hope he was spot on, whether you, me or he likes it, he is a paedophile, he’s been convicted and now he’s on the sex offenders register for possibly life, it may not fit your definition of one, but that’s what he is.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

My answer to him was that I hope he was spot on, whether you, me or he likes it, he is a paedophile, he’s been convicted and now he’s on the sex offenders register for possibly life, it may not fit your definition of one, but that’s what he is.

No - he’s not a paedophile.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

All paedophiles are sex offenders, not all sex offenders are paedophiles.

 

[Marshy77]

Those risks are taken on behalf of the general public by the probation service I’d imagine, again it is different to him applying to join a private club.

He could easily be on a golf course unattended and unseen by anyone else, chances of him being the only person in a shop or restaurant is probably nil and those premises would probably be covered by cameras.

Unless they've specifically said he can't join a golf club then I would guess they've taken that into account that he's been into golf and more than likely will be wanting to play golf. Pretty certain the golf club will have put precautions in place too.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Biggest difference to me is that the Golf Course is private land and therefore the owners responsibility.

So what does that mean? They should do a criminal record check on all members?

 

[User20204]

My answer to him was that I hope he was spot on, whether you, me or he likes it, he is a paedophile, he’s been convicted and now he’s on the sex offenders register for possibly life, it may not fit your definition of one, but that’s what he is.

The dictionary and Wikipedia suggest otherwise as he was not, as far as I recall, deemed to be a danger to children nor was he deemed to be sexually attracted to them.

 

[clubchamp98]

He’s unlikely to reoffend, isn’t he?

He was guilty of abusing his power as a footballer and a celebrity by grooming a teenager. I doubt he particularly has a thing for underaged girls per se. He has a thing for sticking his bits about.

His opportunity to exploit those that were hero worshipping him has gone with his conviction.

He fully deserved everything he got as a punishment, but his crime doesn’t mean he’s a predator looking to groom teenage girls at every opportunity.

He’s not a paedophile with a psychological problem that means he finds prepubescent girls sexually attractive. That’s a very, very different situation.

I can see plenty of arguments that he shouldn’t be allowed to join a private members golf club; I don’t see the risk of him bumping into a teenage girl on an adjacent hole as being one of them.

Very good post and it all maybe true!!

But everything you say becomes untrue if he does do it again.

All sex offenders are only that until their second offence then they become something else.
There’s no right or wrong answer here.
But the “served his sentence argument” is ok for some crimes but imo not this one.
I hope you are right ,but if my daughters played there I would not be happy.

Also we have young girls who go play on their own,
But it may change their playing habits if a sex offender was admitted to the club.
That’s why members usually have a veto (black ball).

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Very good post and it all maybe true!!

But everything you say becomes untrue if he does do it again.

All sex offenders are only that until their second offence then they become something else.
There’s no right or wrong answer here.
But the “served his sentence argument” is ok for some crimes but imo not this one.
I hope you are right ,but if my daughters played there I would not be happy.

Also we have young girls who go play on their own,
But it may change their playing habits if a sex offender was admitted to the club.
That’s why members usually have a veto (black ball).

How do you know one of the existing members isn’t a sex offender?

I don’t disagree at all with members having the option to veto a proposed member by the way, and in these circumstances, I’d be fine if my club blocked Johnson.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

No - he’s not a paedophile.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

All paedophiles are sex offenders, not all sex offenders are paedophiles.

Fair enough by definition he’s not a paedo, but still a convicted child sex offender and I’m not sure if it makes any difference of how I view him to be honest (but that’s my issue)

 

[Deleted member 16999]

So what does that mean? They should do a criminal record check on all members?

No, it comes back to liability and the difference in responsibility for that land and what occurs on it.
Who has access and who doesn’t, how members should behave towards children, notice of who members should speak to if they have an issue with a child, what age Children are allowed on the course on their own or not if the club/owner decide.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The dictionary and Wikipedia suggest otherwise as he was not, as far as I recall, deemed to be a danger to children nor was he deemed to be sexually attracted to them.

You have your opinion and I have mine, he groomed this girl over weeks and months whilst in full knowledge of her age.
How that can be dismissed as not a danger or sexually attracted to them I’m some what confused.

 

[richart]

The dictionary and Wikipedia suggest otherwise as he was not, as far as I recall, deemed to be a danger to children nor was he deemed to be sexually attracted to them.

He groomed a 14 year old girl, when he was in his late 20's. He is convicted of a sex crime against a child. He is on a sex register, which he can not come off for 15 years, and you don't think he is a danger to children, or sexually attracted to them ? I have a feeling anyone with a 14 years old daughter that he could come into contact with might differ. He likes young girls, why should he suddenly have changed his predilections ? 13,14,15 it doesn't matter, they are under age, and he has proved he is a risk to them.

This is of course my opinion, which hopefully I am entitled to ?

 

[Canary_Yellow]

He groomed a 14 year old girl, when he was in his late 20's. He is convicted of a sex crime against a child. He is on a sex register, which he can not come off for 15 years, and you don't think he is a danger to children, or sexually attracted to them ? I have a feeling anyone with a 14 years old daughter that he could come into contact with might differ. He likes young girls, why should he suddenly have changed his predilections ? 13,14,15 it doesn't matter, they are under age, and he has proved he is a risk to them.

This is of course my opinion, which hopefully I am entitled to ?

I don’t think anyone is saying you’re not entitled to your opinion.

Also, no one is saying that grooming under aged girls isn’t wrong; of course it is.

I think you’ve misunderstood the point happyhacker was making though. Paedophiles find prepubescent children sexually attractive. It’s a not a choice, it’s a psychological problem. In the same way I am heterosexual and other people are homosexual, it’s in my nature and part of me. That’s what paedophilia is. It completely goes against nature.

Grooming under aged girls but girls that are post puberty is completely unacceptable too. But it’s not the same thing. That kind of behaviour isn’t inherent in someone’s psyche in the same way. Now it could be someone that preys on vulnerable, impressionable people, which is hardly a good thing to have in society. I’m absolutely not defending anyone that has done that.

However, I think happyhacker’s point was that he’s in category 2 rather than category 1. People in category 1 will never not be a danger in society. People in category 2 can end up there for a plethora of reasons which range from a bit of stupidity / arrogance / immaturity to being a predator. I don’t know where Johnson fits in that, but there’s nothing to suggest he’s a deviant predator (of the type stalking the internet).

None of us know when it comes down to it. But in my view he’s not going to be a danger to anyone youngsters playing golf, which some have suggested he could be. He’s probably one of the least dangerous because he has such a high profile! It’s the ones you don’t know about that are more of a concern, surely?

Other than requiring a criminal record check for members, how could a golf club be expected to know?!

 

[private2017]

This cuts to the heart of our system of justice. Imprisonment, release, re-integration into the community. Is it okay for someone with a conviction for GBH to join, armed robbery, murder etc? Who decides what is a crime too far?

I can't see his time at any golf club, or anywhere else, being an easy one. He is a marked man, he will be identified, juniors will be warned to stay away, adults will stop talking when he enters the room. I can see him playing with his friends but it is likely to be an isolated existence.

No, I don't have sympathy for him but I don't know what the answer is either with regards to reintegration other than it needs to happen but happen under close supervision and away from juniors. That is inevitable from the moment he started down this path.

Paul, in your role as JLO is there anything that you have seen or read that could you prepare you for dealing with that type of situation if it happened at your club? Must be a nightmare for the junior section organisers. Wynyard produces good junior golfers as well from memory of the local golf mag.

You know he has served his sentence, probably on license, on the sex offenders register and everybody knows who he is. I am sure he is not going to get a great welcome wherever he goes. But because of all that he is probably less at risk of reoffending than most people.

I've been in prison for GBH, an example you gave. I got 15 months and it messed up my life alot. I can see now that I deserved what I got but once you serve your sentence you should be able to try and get back on with your life as much as possible. He gota long enough sentence so that was the length the court decided he should be away for and now that's up.

When I got released I was told to try and get back to normal as soon as possible but to know that people will judge me for what I did and it would be hard. I was on tag/curfew for a while so that was impossible. I trie dto go back to my old football club but they said they didn't want me back while I was on tag and then when I finished on tag it took a while to go back.

I know my situation is way different but when people who don't know me find out I've been in prison they usually think I must be a total scumbag and say stuff sure nobody goes to prison here unless it's so bad but that's not true. After getting out I felt people around were talking about me and so I ended up moving away when I could for a fresh start. I could do that because I am a nobody but he would be known anywhere.

If the golf club decided to allow him be a member then that should be that. Unless people want all "criminals" to be kept away from everybody else just in case we re-offend. It doesn't make sense to me. Some people will get back in trouble again and will probably get longer sentences but from what I know this is much more likely to happen if they are kept away from work and other things instead of us being allowed to try and have a normal life again.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

If he’s not a paedo what is he?

A child rapist?