Thoughts?

[User20204]

You’re entitled to your opinion regardless of how distasteful it is, but to classify sex offending where children are involved is nothing short of gruesome.

So you wouldn't differentiate a 16 year old having sex with a 15 year old and a 40+ year old having sex with a 4 year old ? That to me is a gruesome difference but to you it's the same, how very bizarre.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

So you wouldn't differentiate a 16 year old having sex with a 15 year old and a 40+ year old having sex with a 4 year old ? That to me is a gruesome difference but to you it's the same, how very bizarre.

The 16 and 15 yr old can quite properly be classed as same peer group. AJ and your other example are nothing but sick.

 

[Dando]

Just tell your 15 yr old daughter to be aware ... or though I think he is a bit naive not predatory.
I would say to my child don’t be alone with that person and let me know if there are problems and it will be dealt with in the correct manner.

He knew how old she was. that’s not naive!

 

[User20204]

The 16 and 15 yr old can quite properly be classed as same peer group. AJ and your other example are nothing but sick.

That's not in question, the quote I used was to classify sex offending where children are involved is nothing short of gruesome, so I gave a scenario where sex offending where a child could be involved i.e. 15 with a 16. So now it seems the goal posts wish to be moved, I'm out.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

That's not in question, the quote I used was to classify sex offending where children are involved is nothing short of gruesome, so I gave a scenario where sex offending where a child could be involved i.e. 15 with a 16. So now it seems the goal posts wish to be moved, I'm out.

Goal posts arent being moved, the police would view it as same peer group as you cant stop teenagers having sex.
To claim it as anything else is just as sick as the other example you gave.
I suppose the next question though is why are you trying to justify what AJ has done?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

That's not in question, the quote I used was to classify sex offending where children are involved is nothing short of gruesome, so I gave a scenario where sex offending where a child could be involved i.e. 15 with a 16. So now it seems the goal posts wish to be moved, I'm out.

Only a nonce sympathiser would want to classify sex offending with a child?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Goal posts arent being moved, the police would view it as same peer group as you cant stop teenagers having sex.
To claim it as anything else is just as sick as the other example you gave.
I suppose the next question though is why are you trying to justify what AJ has done?

Im sure there’s a officer as an active member on here who would confirm this.....

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The bottom line (ignoring the distasteful comments) is the club have taken his money and let him in. Now whether it is a club that puts prospective members names up to be reviewed and the opportunity to veto is there or not I don't know. If not, you'd expect some sort of interview process (even a simple one talking about the club etc) and surely the subject would/should be been brokered at that stage. No-one can say if the club hasn't already mentioned his past convictions and an agreement sorted.

How likely is he to really play or be in the company of under age girls? I know when I go up to play or perhaps more importantly practice (even when the junior academy is on) they are supervised and not left alone. When I go up and play, I am there with my regular roll up buddies for a coffee before and then a beer later. In club competitions, these are drawn events, but should the club in question let under age players, including girls, then surely the simple answer is not to draw him with those at any stage.

 

[Orikoru]

Really ? He shagged a 15 year old, granted he took advantage but do you think he'll be running around the golf club feeling up all the 8 year old juniors, no neither do I, get a grip of reality for goodness sake.

I'm in agreement with you. He made a very stupid mistake. One I highly doubt he would make again having served his time for it. He's not a predator who's going to be chasing kiddies around. I understand why the other members would not want him to join. But I don't think he poses a real danger to the junior members.
(Edit) Perhaps they should have made a rule that he can't play on the same days as Junior comp days. If only to placate the rest of the membership.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I'm in agreement with you. He made a very stupid mistake. One I highly doubt he would make again having served his time for it. He's not a predator who's going to be chasing kiddies around. I understand why the other members would not want him to join. But I don't think he poses a real danger to the junior members.

You do realise Juniors go up to 18yrs Old, so there’s a possibility they might have teenage girls aged 13-15 as well.
A stupid mistake? He groomed her over months and was fully aware how old she was.

 

[Orikoru]

You do realise Juniors go up to 18yrs Old, so there’s a possibility they might have teenage girls aged 13-15 as well.
A stupid mistake? He groomed her over months and was fully aware how old she was.

He's not a serial child rapist though. He slept with one underage girl because he's an idiot, she was interested in him and he didn't care that she was underage. I don't think he actively seeks out underage girls.

But as I say, I fully understand why other members, particularly those with children obviously, would not want him anywhere near their club. I'm a little surprised the club hasn't made any stipulations about him not playing on days when juniors are there.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

He's not a serial child rapist though. He slept with one underage girl because he's an idiot, she was interested in him and he didn't care that she was underage. I don't think he actively seeks out underage girls.

But as I say, I fully understand why other members, particularly those with children obviously, would not want him anywhere near their club. I'm a little surprised the club hasn't made any stipulations about him not playing on days when juniors are there.

You need to check facts, he didn’t sleep with her for a start, he groomed her for months knowing full well her age, checked out the legality of it on the internet.
She was a kid, lot’s of children get infatuated with stars or celebrities, that still doesn’t excuse the adult’s behaviour and no serial offender is classed as serial if caught after one offence so how do you know he won’t reoffend if given the chance or he won’t go looking for an opportunity.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

This cuts to the heart of our system of justice. Imprisonment, release, re-integration into the community. Is it okay for someone with a conviction for GBH to join, armed robbery, murder etc? Who decides what is a crime too far?

I can't see his time at any golf club, or anywhere else, being an easy one. He is a marked man, he will be identified, juniors will be warned to stay away, adults will stop talking when he enters the room. I can see him playing with his friends but it is likely to be an isolated existence.

No, I don't have sympathy for him but I don't know what the answer is either with regards to reintegration other than it needs to happen but happen under close supervision and away from juniors. That is inevitable from the moment he started down this path.

Paul, in your role as JLO is there anything that you have seen or read that could you prepare you for dealing with that type of situation if it happened at your club? Must be a nightmare for the junior section organisers. Wynyard produces good junior golfers as well from memory of the local golf mag.

 

[Orikoru]

You need to check facts, he didn’t sleep with her for a start, he groomed her for months knowing full well her age, checked out the legality of it on the internet.
She was a kid, lot’s of children get infatuated with stars or celebrities, that still doesn’t excuse the adult’s behaviour and no serial offender is classed as serial if caught after one offence so how do you know he won’t reoffend if given the chance or he won’t go looking for an opportunity.

He didn't even sleep with her? Surely that only makes him even less of a danger then? Was he waiting until she turned 16?

I've not excused him, and please don't suggest that I would. I don't know that he won't reoffend, but we make a judgement based on the circumstances don't we. From the facts that were presented in the media at least, I don't believe he's a serial predator targeting youngsters dispassionately, I think as you say this one particular girl was interested in him and he got it horribly wrong. The man has served his time for his very stupid crime. We don't know he won't reoffend, sure, but what you're doing is assuming that he will reoffend. Which means you don't believe in rehabilitation?

I really believe that having served 6 years behind bars, he wouldn't do it again. Sorry if you think that's naive or whatever, but in this case, I think he's served his punishment. Presumably the golf club committee thinks the same as me, or they wouldn't have allowed him to join would they?

 

[Orikoru]

This cuts to the heart of our system of justice. Imprisonment, release, re-integration into the community. Is it okay for someone with a conviction for GBH to join, armed robbery, murder etc? Who decides what is a crime too far?

I can't see his time at any golf club, or anywhere else, being an easy one. He is a marked man, he will be identified, juniors will be warned to stay away, adults will stop talking when he enters the room. I can see him playing with his friends but it is likely to be an isolated existence.

No, I don't have sympathy for him but I don't know what the answer is either with regards to reintegration other than it needs to happen but happen under close supervision and away from juniors. That is inevitable from the moment he started down this path.

You're right - as I've just said to pauldj, it's a question of whether you believe in rehabilitation or not. If he comes out of prison but isn't allowed to live any sort of life then we might as well give out life imprisonment for all manner of crimes you mention, including first offenders apparently.

 

[HamiltonGuy]

At the end of the day he was convicted and served his time as deemed by law. If he had restrictions on his liberty after his sentence and they meant he can’t play with juniors then I’m sure he’d be back in jail currently for breaking these. If he hasn’t clearly the law have deemed him to be no further risk. I am sure none of you who want him hung drawn and quartered have committed a crime regardless if you got caught or not

 

[Deleted member 16999]

He didn't even sleep with her? Surely that only makes him even less of a danger then? Was he waiting until she turned 16?

I've not excused him, and please don't suggest that I would. I don't know that he won't reoffend, but we make a judgement based on the circumstances don't we. From the facts that were presented in the media at least, I don't believe he's a serial predator targeting youngsters dispassionately, I think as you say this one particular girl was interested in him and he got it horribly wrong. The man has served his time for his very stupid crime. We don't know he won't reoffend, sure, but what you're doing is assuming that he will reoffend. Which means you don't believe in rehabilitation?

I really believe that having served 6 years behind bars, he wouldn't do it again. Sorry if you think that's naive or whatever, but in this case, I think he's served his punishment. Presumably the golf club committee thinks the same as me, or they wouldn't have allowed him to join would they?

You're right - as I've just said to pauldj, it's a question of whether you believe in rehabilitation or not. If he comes out of prison but isn't allowed to live any sort of life then we might as well give out life imprisonment for all manner of crimes you mention, including first offenders apparently.

You are the one making excuses for him, ie “one simple mistake” and even above you lessen how he abused her by saying he might of been waiting till she was 16 to sleep with her.

Your first post I responded to was you talking about 8yr Old Juniors, I was merely pointing out that not all Junior Girls are aged 8!

I’m going on facts, he’s a convicted sex offender and his future will be determined by HIS behaviour not whether a Golf Club has good policies or are putting temptation in his way.

Absolutely agree he or anyone serving time for any offence should be allowed to reintegrate in to society, but I’m not prepared to simply guess he won’t reoffend or put the responsibility of his future behaviour on to anyone else but him.

 

[Orikoru]

You are the one making excuses for him, ie “one simple mistake” and even above you lessen how he abused her by saying he might of been waiting till she was 16 to sleep with her.

Your first post I responded to was you talking about 8yr Old Juniors, I was merely pointing out that not all Junior Girls are aged 8!

I’m going on facts, he’s a convicted sex offender and his future will be determined by HIS behaviour not whether a Golf Club has good policies or are putting temptation in his way.

Absolutely agree he or anyone serving time for any offence should be allowed to reintegrate in to society, but I’m not prepared to simply guess he won’t reoffend or put the responsibility of his future behaviour on to anyone else but him.

Well the point is prison is a deterrent. Having served 6 years for the crime, I do believe he wouldn't reoffend and risk serving even longer a second time.

If you believe in allowing him to reintegrate into society, then that means allowing him to join a golf club.

 

[IanM]

I wonder if he'd be allowed in my club, frankly I doubt it. On the one hand he has served his time.... on the other hand.... crikey, I really don't know.

I believe folk deserve a chance to reform, but some things have me being glad it isn't me making the call.

 

[Papas1982]

Well the point is prison is a deterrent. Having served 6 years for the crime, I do believe he wouldn't reoffend and risk serving even longer a second time.

If you believe in allowing him to reintegrate into society, then that means allowing him to join a golf club.

He was in for half that.

I agree that people should be afforded the opportunity to get on with their lives, but i wouldn't let a sex offender anywhere near children. They've made a mistake, if that impacts their life forever and makes it worse. So be it.