The Union Jack

[CheltenhamHacker]

So if someone from Cheltenham was tied for the lead of The Open with an American, would you not support him?

If I knew him personally, yes. If I liked his personality more than the American, yes. I wouldn't just support him though because he happened to live nearby. I do think, however, that sports are an interesting one. I like to support team GB, because of thelink with the country. Would that make me patriotic? I don't know. I think Hobbit touches on an interesting point. In all honesty how I feel is probably a bit complex, more than I am able to quantify via text!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

But why do people link patriotism with isilationism?

You can be patriotic and still respects others and their patriotism.

Being proud of your language, culture, history etc seems to be almost wrong these days.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Should kids be encouraged to be more patriotic at a young age?

There is a very strong emphasis on British Values at schools nowadays. However that means things like inclusivity, fair play, respect for the rule of the law and not being 'patriotic' as such. I feel that is up to the individual and not something that should be taught at school.

Also I think in this country we have a nasty habit of defining our patriotism through the dislike of others. Football is a prime example of this were as it is almost assumed that if you support England you must dislike Scotland. There is nothing wrong with being patriotic if that means you can also appreciate other countries/cultures. However I feel there are too many people/groups in society who want to exploit patriotism for other nefarious reasons to forward their beliefs and agendas.

 

[SocketRocket]

We should be encouraging working towards being more 'inclusive'...
One country and all that...


Instead we seem to be doing the exact opposite...

Who are the 'We'. Is that all of us or those that are 'exclusive'.

 

[MegaSteve]

Who are the 'We'. Is that all of us or those that are 'exclusive'.

Are we all not responsible without exclusion...

 

[Hacker Khan]

I was just wondering why the Americans are so proud of their flag and we generally aren't.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-37841484/why-do-americans-love-their-flag

 

[Liverbirdie]

There is a very strong emphasis on British Values at schools nowadays. However that means things like inclusivity, fair play, respect for the rule of the law and not being 'patriotic' as such. I feel that is up to the individual and not something that should be taught at school.

Also I think in this country we have a nasty habit of defining our patriotism through the dislike of others. Football is a prime example of this were as it is almost assumed that if you support England you must dislike Scotland. There is nothing wrong with being patriotic if that means you can also appreciate other countries/cultures. However I feel there are too many people/groups in society who want to exploit patriotism for other nefarious reasons to forward their beliefs and agendas.

Spot on, which is why I find most match going Ingurland fans embarrassing, or at least the vocal ones.

Always booing other teams anthems, the "bombers" song etc

 

[IanM]

Spot on, which is why I find most match going Ingurland fans embarrassing, or at least the vocal ones.

Always booing other teams anthems, the "bombers" song etc

Booing other national anthems has pretty much died out now (amongst England football fans) - but very much in evidence when Scotland or Wales hear "God save the Queen." But I am advised that isn't offensive, it's just banter!

 

[Tashyboy]

But why do people link patriotism with isilationism?

You can be patriotic and still respects others and their patriotism.

Being proud of your language, culture, history etc seems to be almost wrong these days.

This for me is spot on, respect is a two way street not one way. I have no problems what so ever in hoisting my Union Jack and all I feel it stands for, which includes all of the above and sticking up for the little man or country.

Should patriotism be be taught in schools, without a shadow of doubt and why not. There is a massive differance in being a patriot of your country and what that means and shouting Ingerland at a football game.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I always struggle with the concept of being "proud of your country" - to me it seems at times some people demand that you show patriotism towards the land you were born on.

To me a country make up is all about the people in the country - and it's all the good people in that country that people should feel pride about.

I am proud of our NHS staff, the Police , Firemen and of course the Military and they are people I believe we all should feel thankful too or indeed anyone who does or have done something that makes our lives or indeed other people's lives a better place.

It always comes up that because I was born England that means I should support the England football team - why ? Or indeed same with any sporting team. I have seen many times people who have been born in England but are Indian descent being criticised because they support India. It's ridiculous. Thankfully England etc isn't anywhere near as the good old USA.

 

[Hacker Khan]

This for me is spot on, respect is a two way street not one way. I have no problems what so ever in hoisting my Union Jack and all I feel it stands for, which includes all of the above and sticking up for the little man or country.

Should patriotism be be taught in schools, without a shadow of doubt and why not. There is a massive differance in being a patriot of your country and what that means and shouting Ingerland at a football game.

Because it would be incredibly hard to create any sort of curriculum around being 'patriotic'. The dictionary definition is 'is having or expressing devotion to and vigorous support for one's country' and to me why do we need to tell children that they should do that?

As I said in a previous post they do teach kids nowadays British values which I feel is a much more encompassing concept relevant to 21st century Britain that all kids should have, instead of a fairly narrow definition which is patriotism. Which could be open to all sorts of misinterpretation and would not be relevant in a lot of schools.

 

[Papas1982]

I don't think the concept of patriotism is a bad thing at all.

Unfortunately some people do hide racist motives behind it and therefor lots who are truly patriotic (as well as being open minded on multiculturalism) still get tarnished with the same brush. Which is just as bad imo.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

This for me is spot on, respect is a two way street not one way. I have no problems what so ever in hoisting my Union Jack and all I feel it stands for, which includes all of the above and sticking up for the little man or country.

Should patriotism be be taught in schools, without a shadow of doubt and why not. There is a massive differance in being a patriot of your country and what that means and shouting Ingerland at a football game.

What exactly do you teach when you teach someone to be patriotic?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Because it would be incredibly hard to create any sort of curriculum around being 'patriotic'. The dictionary definition is 'is having or expressing devotion to and vigorous support for one's country' and to me why do we need to tell children that they should do that?

As I said in a previous post they do teach kids nowadays British values which I feel is a much more encompassing concept relevant to 21st century Britain that all kids should have, instead of a fairly narrow definition which is patriotism. Which could be open to all sorts of misinterpretation and would not be relevant in a lot of schools.

How far are British values from patrotism, to me it's pride and what we hold dear (values) as a nation, it seems patriotism is linked to extremism not tolerance and maybe that's were we should be pulling it back from.

On the sporting question, I want our english sports people to succeed and do well, you can appreciatte better teams or sports people, but actually wanting them to lose before the event beggars belief to me.

If we have no english representative my support goes to the rest of the home nations or in events like the olympics I support GB.

Nowhere does it mean I hate jonny foreigner or begrudge the better team winning, I just prefer to see our sports people succeed.

 

[bobmac]

What exactly do you teach when you teach someone to be patriotic?

Support your sportsmen/women, buy Brittish, help your community, holiday in Britain, teach them our history (good and bad), respect the Royal family, police, NHS, use social media to promote Britain etc

 

[Hacker Khan]

How far are British values from patrotism, to me it's pride and what we hold dear (values) as a nation, it seems patriotism is linked to extremism not tolerance and maybe that's were we should be pulling it back from.

On the sporting question, I want our english sports people to succeed and do well, you can appreciatte better teams or sports people, but actually wanting them to lose before the event beggars belief to me.

If we have no english representative my support goes to the rest of the home nations or in events like the olympics I support GB.

Nowhere does it mean I hate jonny foreigner or begrudge the better team winning, I just prefer to see our sports people succeed.

Well British values are defined in schools as democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect for and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs and for those without faith. So if you are defining patriotism as following the values that we hold dear as a nation then yes it is kind of the same thing. But I think that your definition of patriotism is possibly not really what a lot of people would see it as, as to me patriotism can be quite narrow where as British values is more all encompassing.

I think patriotism can express itself in an element of superiority over other nations and cultures, where as British values does not really, they are more saying 'these are our values, we are not saying they are the best but that's how we roll over here so you need to follow them if you want to be accepted'. So theoretically you can be relatively unpatriotic (as I would probably be myself if we are talking English patriotism) but I strongly believe in adhering to British values as defined above.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Support your sportsmen/women, buy Brittish, help your community, holiday in Britain, teach them our history (good and bad), respect the Royal family, police, NHS, use social media to promote Britain etc

Help community , respecting others etc that's not patriotism that's just good manners regardless of what nationality someone is

Buy British ? Holiday in Britian ? Supporting sports stars etc - why do we need to teach children that ? Going abroad helps develop an understanding on how the rest of the world is , and buying British ?! Would never want to tell someone to buy something just because of where it comes from.

 

[HughJars]

Never. Ever.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well British values are defined in schools as democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect for and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs and for those without faith. So if you are defining patriotism as following the values that we hold dear as a nation then yes it is kind of the same thing. But I think that your definition of patriotism is possibly not really what a lot of people would see it as, as to me patriotism can be quite narrow where as British values is more all encompassing.

I think patriotism can express itself in an element of superiority over other nations and cultures, where as British values does not really, they are more saying 'these are our values, we are not saying they are the best but that's how we roll over here so you need to follow them if you want to be accepted'. So theoretically you can be relatively unpatriotic (as I would probably be myself if we are talking English patriotism) but I strongly believe in adhering to British values as defined above.

Summed up well

 

[Hacker Khan]

Support your sportsmen/women, buy Brittish, help your community, holiday in Britain, teach them our history (good and bad), respect the Royal family, police, NHS, use social media to promote Britain etc

A lot of that such as community engagement, respect for the law is done through British values. And history is taught a lot in schools. Telling people to holiday in the UK is a bit silly though as schools are not in the game of telling people how to spend their leisure time and also you could argue in a globally linked economy the more exposure kids today get of overseas cultures the better it will hold them in stead later on in life. As for telling them to use social media to promote Britain then again not really sure schools should be in the game of telling kids to be unpaid interns for Visit Britain in their spare time.

And are you planning to tell kids from all the different cultures that we have today to support British sports men/women or the sportspeople from where their families originated? Will you make it mandatory that all schools in Nottingham to have to teach their kids to support Forest or County, all kids in Surrey to support Man U? Where will it end?