Old Skier
Tour Winner
Doom has suggested on a couple of threads lies about polls but he does subscribe to a dubious blog.
The next PM.
- Thread starter Tashyboy
- Start date
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
In the Tory Party Leadership campaign Hunt and Stewart continually refused to commit to taking the UK out of the EU on 31st October. When Hunt was H2H against Johnson, Hunt maintained that position - saying that it was 'ludicrous' (my word) to make such a commitment when a deal could be within days or weeks of being agreed and/or signed off by parliament on the 31st October. That Johnson was adamant (no ifs, no buts) that UK would leave the EU on 31st October certainly did for Stewart, and was used by Johnson as key criticism of Hunt, and the Tory Party lapped it up. And so we got the leader we have - the leader that told us that absolutely nothing would prevent him taking us out on 31st October.
why put your own word in rather than use the words that were actually said?
I think you show your naivety in negotiating there. Why say we want the 31st Oct but then say if you can't make that date we are willing to budge? As much as I detest Johnson I will grudgingly admit he's played a blinder throughout the negotiations.
First of all, the EU said they wouldn't open the WA and the backstop was not open for change. Guess what? He got the EU to do both by playing hard ball. Whatever rubbish you care to spout about the negotiations you cannot hide from the fact that in 85 days Johnson got the EU to shift their position by some margin.
What has been even more remarkable in the last couple of days is Tusk has asked the EU 27 to consider an extension to Jan 31st. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to recognise that the EU are starting to feel the squeeze. They want an extension even though Boris doesn't. Who's blinked now? What a bunch of spineless wimps the majority of parliament is. I wonder who is the sycophantic Wormtongue now, Cummings or a whole host of MP's?
I hate to say it but well done Boris. And to you, neh neh ne neh ner.
For all your shouting, you got it way wrong.
I think you show your naivety in negotiating there. Why say we want the 31st Oct but then say if you can't make that date we are willing to budge? As much as I detest Johnson I will grudgingly admit he's played a blinder throughout the negotiations.
First of all, the EU said they wouldn't open the WA and the backstop was not open for change. Guess what? He got the EU to do both by playing hard ball. Whatever rubbish you care to spout about the negotiations you cannot hide from the fact that in 85 days Johnson got the EU to shift their position by some margin.
What has been even more remarkable in the last couple of days is Tusk has asked the EU 27 to consider an extension to Jan 31st. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to recognise that the EU are starting to feel the squeeze. They want an extension even though Boris doesn't. Who's blinked now? What a bunch of spineless wimps the majority of parliament is. I wonder who is the sycophantic Wormtongue now, Cummings or a whole host of MP's?
I hate to say it but well done Boris. And to you, neh neh ne neh ner.
lets not forget the currency traders and hedge fund managers who are all going to make a killing if we leave on the 31st without a deal... well done Boris
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
Unless of course all Boris has done is given the EU a better deal!I think you show your naivety in negotiating there. Why say we want the 31st Oct but then say if you can't make that date we are willing to budge? As much as I detest Johnson I will grudgingly admit he's played a blinder throughout the negotiations.
First of all, the EU said they wouldn't open the WA and the backstop was not open for change. Guess what? He got the EU to do both by playing hard ball. Whatever rubbish you care to spout about the negotiations you cannot hide from the fact that in 85 days Johnson got the EU to shift their position by some margin.
What has been even more remarkable in the last couple of days is Tusk has asked the EU 27 to consider an extension to Jan 31st. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to recognise that the EU are starting to feel the squeeze. They want an extension even though Boris doesn't. Who's blinked now? What a bunch of spineless wimps the majority of parliament is. I wonder who is the sycophantic Wormtongue now, Cummings or a whole host of MP's?
I hate to say it but well done Boris. And to you, neh neh ne neh ner.
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/p...e-put-a-border-in-the-irish-sea-1-9110754/amp
lets not forget the currency traders and hedge fund managers who are all going to make a killing if we leave on the 31st without a deal... well done Boris
They'll be the same currency traders that have been buying at around €1.10 and €1.15, and would be selling around €1.06 - €1.08...
Unless of course all Boris has done is given the EU a better deal!
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/p...e-put-a-border-in-the-irish-sea-1-9110754/amp
Has he?
And what are those better terms
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I think you show your naivety in negotiating there. Why say we want the 31st Oct but then say if you can't make that date we are willing to budge? As much as I detest Johnson I will grudgingly admit he's played a blinder throughout the negotiations.
First of all, the EU said they wouldn't open the WA and the backstop was not open for change. Guess what? He got the EU to do both by playing hard ball. Whatever rubbish you care to spout about the negotiations you cannot hide from the fact that in 85 days Johnson got the EU to shift their position by some margin.
What has been even more remarkable in the last couple of days is Tusk has asked the EU 27 to consider an extension to Jan 31st. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to recognise that the EU are starting to feel the squeeze. They want an extension even though Boris doesn't. Who's blinked now? What a bunch of spineless wimps the majority of parliament is. I wonder who is the sycophantic Wormtongue now, Cummings or a whole host of MP's?
I hate to say it but well done Boris. And to you, neh neh ne neh ner.
And some might say that Johnson said he'd not negotiate with the EU until the they removed the backstop completely. Now of course that might have been the order of things - but it might not have been
And as far as the deal...well yes - he has got a deal - and so did May. But was it because of his taking a hard line - or was it partly also because he simply went back to almost the same point the EU started at - with a border between NI and rUK. And because he did that the EU were able to move in other areas - and who knows - they might well have done that at the outset had May not said No over that border. Besides - this great new deal is all very well and good (if indeed it is) unless you are a British or NI/Scottish Unionist/Loyalist.
no not those ones the good (or bad) onesThey'll be the same currency traders that have been buying at around €1.10 and €1.15, and would be selling around €1.06 - €1.08...
And some might say that Johnson said he'd not negotiate with the EU until the they removed the backstop completely. Now of course that might have been the order of things - but it might not have been
And as far as the deal...well yes - he has got a deal - and so did May. But was it because of his taking a hard line - or was it partly also because he simply went back to almost the same point the EU started at - with a border between NI and rUK. And because he did that the EU were able to move in other areas - and who knows - they might well have done that at the outset had May not said No over that border. Besides - this great new deal is all very well and good (if indeed it is) unless you are a British or NI/Scottish Unionist/Loyalist.
You still don't get it. Johnson set an extreme hard line, "he would not negotiate until..." just as the EU said they wouldn't reopen the deal. Both sides start far apart and meet somewhere in the middle.
C'mon Hugh, its not hard. You say you want a 10% pay rise and the bosses say you're getting 5%. After arguing the toss about it, you settle for 7.5%. Surely you've seen enough of that in your 50-odd years to know how it works?
What the rest of the deal looks like I haven't got a clue. I just can't be bothered reading it. After Westminster has finished with amending it in the next couple of weeks/months it won't look like it does today.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
That’s exactly the issue isn’t it, have they folded because of him or have they folded because he offered things May stated were red lines?Has he?
Some commentators still saying it’s BRINO.
Or have they folded? I don't doubt they've met somewhere in the middle. It won't be a full on hard Brexit but where it sits and what comes the UK's way, who knows. But here's a thought, so many Remainers argued for a compromise deal, and now Johnson has got something that concedes some things its still not good enough.
The reality appears to be that many Remainers who argued for compromise were being disingenuous and actually wanted a full on Remain. In effect, the very thing Remainers accused Leavers of, i.e. of not considering them, they themselves are now guilty of.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
As a leav
There was never going to be a deal that satisfied everyone.
Like you, I don’t trust Johnson, but possibly unlike you, I never will,
Instead of being grown up and riding on the success of getting “a deal†he’s now paused the Bill, imo, he should of made a statement about his failure to meet the 31st Oct deadline, he could of blamed everyone else, asked the EU for the so called “flextension†and then said he will get us out asap.
This 31st or nothing is ridiculous, if the deal is the right one, why does it matter if it takes a few more weeks, he could of stolen the high ground.
As a leaver I’m happy with any deal, it takes the crashing out fears away, the proper negotiations can then happen over the following years.
There was never going to be a deal that satisfied everyone.
Like you, I don’t trust Johnson, but possibly unlike you, I never will,
Instead of being grown up and riding on the success of getting “a deal†he’s now paused the Bill, imo, he should of made a statement about his failure to meet the 31st Oct deadline, he could of blamed everyone else, asked the EU for the so called “flextension†and then said he will get us out asap.
This 31st or nothing is ridiculous, if the deal is the right one, why does it matter if it takes a few more weeks, he could of stolen the high ground.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Well it won't be Ruth Davidson now as she has just taken on a 4th job. A political lobbyist, whilst still drawing her pay as an MSP.
I think it is called the Tory way.
Probably will not be spending much time with her new baby now after all.
I think it is called the Tory way.
Probably will not be spending much time with her new baby now after all.
