The Footie Thread

[PaulMdj]

There’s a good piece on the BBC site and it says exactly the same. With the outcome of the Bosman ruling Italian football was flooded with the best players due to the then money available. It never helped the younger Italian players.

Sorry mate, how can young players not be helped by playing with, at the time, the best in the world?
Surely that would be a great place to be in?

I get they may struggle with game time, ie, what I think is happening with Foden and the likes, but surely the standard would be immense.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

No matter how fed up England fans might feel right now, imagine if you were Italian . Amazing decline. 3 world cups in succession missed now, at a time when it's never been easier to qualify.

As someone with Italian family I can confirm they're more than a little angry at how poor the national team has been performing in World cup qualification. Ironically though they didn't perform to badly in the group stages in the grand scheme of things, 6 wins from 8 games is decent, problem was the 2 losses to Norway that saw them enter the lottery of the Play offs.

Is there a bigger discussion to be had here? That when Serie A was top dog and was flooded by the influx of foreign players due to being awash with money. Did it sow the seeds of its own decline. And watching England's tepid performances of late, is it happening here?

Italy had an influx of foreign players long before the decline of Serie A and it continued to thrive including a world cup win in 2006, the decline began when the Calciopoli scandal occurred and people stopped investing in Italian football as the bigger teams were stripped down bare, the rise of investment in other leagues started and Italy got left behind. This meant the big stars stopped coming, less investment and negligence at club level meant not doing enough to bring youth through. Those issues compounded and left Serie A in a weaker position for a few years but it is starting to rebuild and improve. England's tepid performances are nothing but the state of football in general possession based and focused on not losing rather than playing actual football

In fairness, England have performed well at recent tournaments. QF, SF, Finals even. No wins but they have been there or there abouts.

I think these things tend to go in cycles, Italy are going through a bad spell. I don't know what their youth set up is like, are the foundations in place there?

I'm not sure there are any outstanding national teams right now. Brasil and Germany are shadows of their former selves, Spain have gone right off the boil. France are probably the best at the moment but they are not nailed on. It's a funny time at international level, not in a good way.

Italy youth set up was poor for a number of years due to the lack of investment but it's starting to gain better investment and bringing itself back up to a decent level.

 

[AmandaJR]

I'm confused as to where our golden generation that Southgate failed with have gone? Genuinely.

 

[AmandaJR]

Japan are a great watch. High energy. Super sharp. Nicked the ball so often and yet barely fouled in doing so. Simple. Effective.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

A number of things hasn’t helped Italy

The lack of money within the league due to reduced media rights

And more than anything else - corruption


There are some good Italian players but i reckon there is prob just 4 - Donnaruma , Bastoni , Barella and Tonali

There have very little attacking threat

How many teams around Europes top leagues have a top Italian playing in them ?

The U21 are decent but again no real stars

 

[PaulMdj]

I'm confused as to where our golden generation that Southgate failed with have gone? Genuinely.

To be fair to them, this World Cup is the 1st Tournament post Southgate.

We qualified with a 100% record, first European team to qualify for the WC.

But we batter ourselves in friendlies, Southgate got us to levels we had never seen before and supporters weren’t happy, I believe we thought we’d get the next manager playing a different style of Football and we haven’t.

Let’s just hope it all comes good in the summer, as, imo, that’s when it would be fair to judge both Tuchel and the players.

 

[Swango1980]

Rubbish and got to Finals

See my last paragraph before posting insulting replies. Thanks

 

[clubchamp98]

Is there a bigger discussion to be had here? That when Serie A was top dog and was flooded by the influx of foreign players due to being awash with money. Did it sow the seeds of its own decline. And watching England's tepid performances of late, is it happening here?

Think it’s more iPads and phones.

When’s the last time you saw a bunch of kids playing footy in the park outside the organised teams.?
Never by me and I go through the park most days.

I wonder if Italy has a similar problem.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Not sure why the likes of Watkins and Wellbeck weren’t in the squad

England have played Kane constantly and it’s not allowed other strikers to get a run

And then the match they rest him they don’t have any other strikers in the squad

It’s all very strange

Even back to Trent not even getting in the squad

The likes of Palmer are overrated

Foden just can’t play in an England shirt


They will rely on Kane and Bellingham

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Think it’s more iPads and phones.

When’s the last time you saw a bunch of kids playing footy in the park outside the organised teams.?
Never by me and I go through the park most days.

I wonder if Italy has a similar problem.

There is thousands of football clubs now with youth teams all the way down to under 8’a etc

You don’t see many kids playing in parks isn’t because of iPhones or pads etc

Many kids in club set ups will be asked not to play with mates and even for the school

Youth set up in England is very good as we can see by their results

It was a rubbish two friendlies but certainly not something to suddenly write off English football

 

[clubchamp98]

There is thousands of football clubs now with youth teams all the way down to under 8’a etc

You don’t see many kids playing in parks isn’t because of iPhones or pads etc

Many kids in club set ups will be asked not to play with mates and even for the school

Youth set up in England is very good as we can see by their results

It was a rubbish two friendlies but certainly not something to suddenly write off English football

I disagree kids are over coached imo . That’s part of the problem .
They need to get back to playing on bad pitches where you learn to control the ball.
Not on immaculate academy surfaces.

 

[Swango1980]

I disagree kids are over coached imo . That’s part of the problem .
They need to get back to playing on bad pitches where you learn to control the ball.
Not on immaculate academy surfaces.

With broken bottles, stones and dog mess in the goal area?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I disagree kids are over coached imo . That’s part of the problem .
They need to get back to playing on bad pitches where you learn to control the ball.
Not on immaculate academy surfaces.

Why do they need to play on bad pitches?

How does that make them better

During this nostalgic trip back in time how did it help England teams of the past

 

[clubchamp98]

Why do they need to play on bad pitches?

How does that make them better

During this nostalgic trip back in time how did it help England teams of the past

It helped in 1966!

All the best Brazilian players used to say the learned to play on the beach!
Uneven surfaces help your ball control
Maybe it’s why Brazil are not what they were and most other countries.

 

[Swango1980]

It helped in 1966!

All the best Brazilian players used to say the learned to play on the beach!
Uneven surfaces help your ball control
Maybe it’s why Brazil are not what they were and most other countries.

Brazil still have beaches.

 

[clubchamp98]

With broken bottles, stones and dog mess in the goal area?

We used to have councils that looked after things like that but not anymore.

And we took our bottles back where we bought them.!

 

[clubchamp98]

Brazil still have beaches.

Yes but do Brazilian clubs allow their youngsters to play on them.

If it’s like here probably not.

It just seems to me everything is organised in football now!
If your not in an organised league club ( which some parents can’t afford ) you just don’t play anymore.

 

[Swango1980]

Yes but do Brazilian clubs allow their youngsters to play on them.

If it’s like here probably not.

It just seems to me everything is organised in football now!
If your not in an organised league club ( which some parents can’t afford ) you just don’t play anymore.

No idea how they do things in Brazil. But I'm pretty sure kids still play football on the beaches. I'm pretty sure Cunha still plays a bit on the beaches when he goes back on holiday, think he mentioned it in an interview

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

A number of things hasn’t helped Italy

The lack of money within the league due to reduced media rights

And more than anything else - corruption


There are some good Italian players but i reckon there is prob just 4 - Donnaruma , Bastoni , Barella and Tonali

There have very little attacking threat

How many teams around Europes top leagues have a top Italian playing in them ?

The U21 are decent but again no real stars

Just 4 then you’d be wrong. A view of someone that only or mainly watches premier league and champions league football btw that’s not a dig. I wouldn’t expect English fans to know most good and upcoming Italian players names as they’re not on your radar. As someone with family connections I watch a lot of it and there are some seriously good players coming through.

Retegui, Cambiasso, Gatti, Esposito, DiMarco, Buongiorno. That’s a few extras without even having to go through the teams and leagues.

Also a bit of a non point saying how many top teams around Europe have Italian players. Historically Italians are not renowned to play outside of their homeland, yes there have been a few but the same can be said for English players the number that go abroad compared to those that stay and play for big clubs here is no different so it’s an odd point to raise. Why would they if they’re already earning good money, living in a wonderful Mediterranean climate with good food and surrounded by passionate fans and family. Football does exist outside of the top English, Spanish and German teams.

The pinnacle for club players in Italy isn’t playing for clubs in those countries. It still remains Juve, Inter or Milan, there’s heritage in those teams that resonates in Italian football more than playing in the premier league. Yes there will be some that want to as money talks even more now but to use that as a claim for the failings of Italian football is a little naive.

 

[nickjdavis]

I didn’t see the game last night but judging by what I have read another dour pointless game.

What do we think would class as a successful World Cup for England (or Scotland for our friends north of the border).

Seeing one win should get you out the group with the top 3 going through in most groups with 32 out of 48 teams advancing from those stages then I think both teams would expect to reach the knockouts.
From there I would say I think would quarter finals is minimum for England and last 16 for Scotland.
Anything more than that I would class as successful.

What’s everyone’s thoughts?

Agree.

Success is last 4.

QF's should be achievable for England but it does depend on how the chips fall with regard the knockout draws.

Scotland will do well to make top 2 in their group...Morocco and Brazil are both better teams...but they should proceed as one of the best 3rd placed teams but are then likely to come up against a group winner...so last 16 would be a huge achievement.

This is a bit of fun, you can either enter your own score predictions and see how things pan out or let the system "simulate" results....the simulation isn't just throwing random scores at matches.....play it enough times and you see "predictable" patterns (though there are a few "shocks" thrown in that are unlikely to happen....but hey....we all remember Senegal beating France in 2002 and Cameroon doing over Argentina in 1990...so who am I to really say what is likely/unlikely....any way...as i said, its a bit of fun...

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