Pin-seeker
Well-known member
I’m sure he’s a nice bloke,just couldn’t hit a barn door with a banjo
Nice luxury when a £80m signing flops & you just stick him on the bench & spend another £300m
Golfmmad
Tour Winner
Well they certainly got a reaction from me,
I stopped listening ages ago, just after Mike left.
The reality is, we don't know that. Can you account for every penny of your owners investments? Finances are so global now, so spread, that it is highly unlikely that any billionaires money is entirely clean. I'm not sure that after that, judging degrees of cleanliness stands up.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
The accounts are public on companies house and which shows if there is any owner investment
It shows the loan for the two stands
And it shows the investment from selling a stake in the club
Yes, but you don't know the precise nature of the investments made, which companies etc. Some of them are highly likely to be in questionable areas because some of those make money. I'm not saying they sought them out, but that is where they would have been placed. Have you really done an in depth dive into every investment, every link of the chain?
My point is, you can't claim to be 'mostly' clean whilst taking a moral high ground. You are either 100% clean, not a chance, or stop moralising.
Skytot
Well-known member
Letting clubs get away with 115 charges! What you on about City haven’t got away with any of the 115 charges the case is still live .And if they do Get Away with it , it’s because justice has proven the club innocent. Surely you believe in justice and how it works? Anyway going off subject here
nickjdavis
Head Pro
Al Hilal have allegedly offered Isak £600k per week tax free according to the Guardian and repeated across a variety of media outlets (because thats what constitutes news these days...someone makes a spurious claim and then a load of tin pot outlets without inside sources of their own repeat said claim).
If they can afford 600k per week then they can afford a transfer fee north of £170 million.....if PIF (Newcastles owners) want to dick us around by shifting one of our established players to a Saudi based PIF owned team, to help bolster the image of their own league, then they should pay through the nose for the priviledge.
Actually...its a great way of getting money into the club thinking about it and totally circumvents any PSR restrictions....if a Saudi PIF owned team decided that Isak was worth £200m to help bolster the club and bolster the league that he plays in, then who are the FA to say that is an unfair fee...we are not simply talking about the value of a player based on his ability at a local club level...this takes things to a new level where a players value to the wider league they are to play in needs to be considered in setting a transfer fee.
From his own point of view Isak could have 2 years in Saudi, earn himself an absolute fortune and still be able to come back to Europe and play whilst at his peak.
If they can afford 600k per week then they can afford a transfer fee north of £170 million.....if PIF (Newcastles owners) want to dick us around by shifting one of our established players to a Saudi based PIF owned team, to help bolster the image of their own league, then they should pay through the nose for the priviledge.
Actually...its a great way of getting money into the club thinking about it and totally circumvents any PSR restrictions....if a Saudi PIF owned team decided that Isak was worth £200m to help bolster the club and bolster the league that he plays in, then who are the FA to say that is an unfair fee...we are not simply talking about the value of a player based on his ability at a local club level...this takes things to a new level where a players value to the wider league they are to play in needs to be considered in setting a transfer fee.
From his own point of view Isak could have 2 years in Saudi, earn himself an absolute fortune and still be able to come back to Europe and play whilst at his peak.
@nickjdavis I would have thought a move to Saudi would be much more palatable for the fans. It's crazy money and you wouldn't be strengthening a rival. Losing your star striker to a rival team doesn't make sense. Losing him to a team you don't compete against, less painful.
That money then gives you free reign. That's even before you sell your ladies team to yourselves for £80m, The Stack for £150m.......
That money then gives you free reign. That's even before you sell your ladies team to yourselves for £80m, The Stack for £150m.......
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
There has only been one investment into the club
It’s been a constant moan from some fans that the owners don’t put any of their own money in because they don’t
It was the one thing they were very clear on
Maybe the money from the Prem or Adidas or Nike or CL isn’t clean
But I believe the point was the club haven’t relied on dodgy owner investments
They are as clean as you can get in the sport
nickjdavis
Head Pro
I agree totally...the last thing I want to see is Isak going to a direct rival.
However...if Isak went to a PIF owned team, then you would have to seriously question the motives of PIF and their true commitment to Newcastle. Once it has happened for the first time, there is nothing to stop PIF doing the same thing and asset stripping the club....Livramento, Joelinton, Tonali, Guimares, Hall....you would d take £100m instantly for any of them. Now obviously not all of them would want to go...but it only takes a couple and you are on the way to suddenly being a very cash rich club, but "player poor".
You know exactly where they've earned the money, and I do mean exactly? No, you can't. Not just their direct business but the full chain of where they put their money, what happens to it. I'm not suggesting anything illegal but no money in that volume stands up to full scrutiny.
'Clean as you can get', isn't clean
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
I believe if a PIF owned club bought Isak then it goes down as a £0 transfer profit on the PSR balance sheet - because of multi club rules
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Then every club is dirty - any sponsership is dirty - there isn’t a single club that can be clean if people have to trace back every single pound - what can a club doYou know exactly where they've earned the money, and I do mean exactly? No, you can't. Not just their direct business but the full chain of where they put their money, what happens to it. I'm not suggesting anything illegal but no money in that volume stands up to full scrutiny.
'Clean as you can get', isn't clean
@nickjdavis ultimately though, the Saudi league is a pub league and I think it will go like the Chinese league 10-15 years ago. A flurry of big moves but then most players realise what it is and don't fancy it. Players are hugely rich already, not all will go chasing more. Quality of life, for you and your family, quality of football, plenty will say no thanks.
Anyway, Bruno's a Geordie now, he isn't leaving. He, and his family are loving the life here
Anyway, Bruno's a Geordie now, he isn't leaving. He, and his family are loving the life here
Agreed. So stop trying to take a moral high ground, there simply isn't one
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
When it comes to “moral high ground” I think it clear what the fans are meaning
Unfortunately when it comes to the sport since 92 it’s about money
The clubs with rich owners now want rules that allow unlimited spending - the same fans who prob moaned about Chelsea spending and then city spending until they got their own rich owner
I’ll take the high ground when it comes to the fact we have a club that stands on its own two feet - we may not win as much as those deep pocket clubs but I’ll always take satisfaction in the trophies being won
You would have thought most clubs would want to be sustainable
nickjdavis
Head Pro
The transfer would certainly be subject to a fair market value assessment as it would be classed as an "Associated Party Transaction", which is what happened when Newcastle sold Allain St. Maximin to PIF owned Al Hilal a couple of years ago to ease PSR issues. APT's count towards PSR, they are just managed a little more tightly scrutinised.
I cannot find any reference as to whether this changed significantly with the tightening of PSR regulations in 2024, to the extent that such transfer fees were "zero rated".
Don Barzini
Assistant Pro
Well, as you want to carry on…
I’ve addressed these points before Art. Obviously I need to do it again.
Hands up, full disclosure - I don’t have a suggested set of alternative rules because I am no expert in football finance. But I am of the belief the current rules don’t achieve what they set out to do and that all they achieve is keeping a few clubs ahead of the rest. I believe they are anti-competitive and I believe that if the powers that be wanted to, they could easily come up with a fairer system that at least makes it more competitive. But therein lies the issue - the powers that be have no desire to allow any shift of power. “We don’t want too many Leicester City’s” after all.
As for multiple clubs challenging. Yes, maybe you’ll get the odd freak season here or there, such as Forest last season exceeding all expectations or Leicester of a few years ago. Or the odd Villa or Newcastle grabbing a CL spot. But a true, sustained challenge for silverware against the usual suspects?! No chance. All that happens when the likes of Forest/Villa/Newcastle have the odd season upsetting the applecart is the vultures circle and damage their ability to do it again.
Again I feel I have been very clear on this. I am not blaming Liverpool or anyone else, or trying to suggest that the rules were brought in specifically to help them. What I am saying is that the rules as they are inherently protect those few clubs.
The Protected Six, for their own reasons, were in the right place at the right time when the rules were brought in. They built their empires with unchecked spending. (Some more than others) And they’ve never looked back, nor had any reason to. Not their fault. Not their design. But the fact remains the rules as they exist keep them at Mr Tickle-sized arms length from everyone else. PSR entrenches the elite’s advantages and simply dismissing this is ignoring the manner in which the rules protect “legacy wealth” over fair competition.
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Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
So for UEFA and FFP it would be zero but as you say for Prem PSR it would need to be adjusted for market value
Henry winter has dismissed any talks with Al Hilal and player not interested in going there
I’m not a fan of the whole saga tbh we have been on the receiving end with the same situation and it’s not fair on the fans
