The Footie Thread

[Swango1980]

United have made some truly ludicrous contract decisions in the last decade or so.

Even after that one great season Rashford was worth nowhere near the amount referred to whenever his name crops up in such exchanges.

But he’s not an isolated case. The number of contracts which have been extended over the years when they should have been allowed to run down is mind boggling. The other classic example was Phil Jones. Spent god knows how long injured and rather than allow him to leave the club kept extending his contract.

It’s the primary reason the squad carries so much deadwood.

I heard that Mainoo was in contract negotiations with Man Utd, and wanting £200,000 per week. No idea if true, but that seems like an incredible amount for a 19 year old, even relative to most at top football clubs? I wonder if Utd are currently in a transition, where they are trying to lower what they offer, and it is going to take a bit of time for some players to accept they are not just going to be thrown whatever they demand?

Sure, Mainoo needs to renegotiate his contract, as I've Googled he is on £20,000 a week until 2027. Yoro is on £115,000 (still seems very high for a kid), Amad and Ugarte £120,000. To me, it would seem reasonable that Mainoo (and his people) think that this sort of salary demand is about the level he should be on relative to others, and obviously if he develops really well over the next few years then they can have another conversation. If they are truly asking for £200,000 it does worry me a bit, because it would seem there is a lot more focus by them on the big money that perhaps the development?

 

[Orikoru]

He's Columbian, I don't think he cares about the prestige over here, clearly a money man - cant think of many Columbians that haven't been all after money tbh

It's definitely a South American thing. Plenty of Brazilians, Argentinians etc have been happy to go to China, Russia, USA, Saudi, wherever the money is. I think it's because they come from such a poor background, they just want to make as much as possible and send it back to their families and communities. Different mindset.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

He played in the CL on Wednesday mate! Lamare Bogarde.

Seems to be the Academy player pushing for first team appearances this year, he's a CDM by trade I believe but we've played him at CB and RB this season and he's done himself justice in those positions too.

Could be a real talent in the future.

Based on my post about Mangala above, we may come knocking on the door for him next season. Either on loan or another 'funky' PSR deal, same as Tim Iroegbunam .

 

[Billysboots]

Whilst I have sympathy with that view, I think the player is also equally to blame. I think in his early days he was putting the effort in, but I think the off field actions whilst laudable have led to his head being filled with how wonderful and important he is, when he clearly isnt trying at his day job. I suspect he won't drop his wages to get a move and will sit on the side collecting his money in the hope Ratcliffe decidescomes begging to him to save the club.
Talented players they are, but him and Sancho have been so toxic for the whole team. I think they probably learnt from Ronaldo in his final stint there.

I recall being lambasted here when I questioned Rashford’s attitude a year or so ago, despite it being plainly obvious to anyone who actually watched him play football. He has been stinking the club out for too long, and they will be well rid of him.

Ten Hag’s approach was a curious one, and was at odds with his treatment of both Ronaldo and Sancho. Both were unceremoniously dumped, whilst Rashford received little more than a slap across the knuckles for repeated behind the scenes transgressions and performances which were consistently poor.

I’m delighted that Amorim is confronting the problem head on. He’s trying to rebuild pretty much from scratch, and clearly doesn’t want anyone around his squad unless they are totally committed to the cause. He’s sending a message to the club, the owners, the squad and the fans. And he’s absolutely right to do it.

 

[Orikoru]

He played in the CL on Wednesday mate! Lamare Bogarde.

Seems to be the Academy player pushing for first team appearances this year, he's a CDM by trade I believe but we've played him at CB and RB this season and he's done himself justice in those positions too.

Could be a real talent in the future.

Wikipedia reckons that's Winston's nephew, not son.

 

[Bdill93]

Wikipedia reckons that's Winston's nephew, not son.

yeah I read that wrong... okay Nephews....

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Contracts

Mental in the sport

We have had a few people looking at those and been very frugal in regards what the players get and a lot of the renewals are based on performance based and also age

Mo was given a contract that broke the wage structure a couple years back

But hearing that Mainoo wants £200k does seem madness but what’s the going rate now

We have 3 big players going through contract talks

Lots of calls to “give them what they want” etc

But two of them whilst still two of the best in the league if not the world are mid 30’s - it’s very clear the club are reluctant to give them big wages and long contracts because that “wall” could happen any time soon

All the players see is the massive amount of money coming in from telly revenues etc

We it seems have just earned £100mil alone from the CL - the players want a slice of that pie


I would love to see every club and league having some sort of wage limit

 

[Bdill93]

It's definitely a South American thing. Plenty of Brazilians, Argentinians etc have been happy to go to China, Russia, USA, Saudi, wherever the money is. I think it's because they come from such a poor background, they just want to make as much as possible and send it back to their families and communities. Different mindset.

I agree, don't hold it against them, they'll be rich forever and give their extended families chances at better lives.

Just a shame when a promising talent goes to waste. We will all forget Duran soon unless his attitude is a problem over there and he comes back to Europe quickly - which is more than possible.

 

[Bdill93]

Contracts

Mental in the sport

We have had a few people looking at those and been very frugal in regards what the players get and a lot of the renewals are based on performance based and also age

Mo was given a contract that broke the wage structure a couple years back

But hearing that Mainoo wants £200k does seem madness but what’s the going rate now

We have 3 big players going through contract talks

Lots of calls to “give them what they want” etc

But two of them whilst still two of the best in the league if not the world are mid 30’s - it’s very clear the club are reluctant to give them big wages and long contracts because that “wall” could happen any time soon

All the players see is the massive amount of money coming in from telly revenues etc

We it seems have just earned £100mil alone from the CL - the players want a slice of that pie


I would love to see every club and league having some sort of wage limit

No club in the prem would pay Mainoo 200k a week other than man united.

That's all you need to know - its Rashford V2 - never worth even close to 300k a week

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I recall being lambasted here when I questioned Rashford’s attitude a year or so ago, despite it being plainly obvious to anyone who actually watched him play football. He has been stinking the club out for too long, and they will be well rid of him.

Ten Hag’s approach was a curious one, and was at odds with his treatment of both Ronaldo and Sancho. Both were unceremoniously dumped, whilst Rashford received little more than a slap across the knuckles for repeated behind the scenes transgressions and performances which were consistently poor.

I’m delighted that Amorim is confronting the problem head on. He’s trying to rebuild pretty much from scratch, and clearly doesn’t want anyone around his squad unless they are totally committed to the cause. He’s sending a message to the club, the owners, the squad and the fans. And he’s absolutely right to do it.

I agree that Amorin is tackling the problem, and rightly so. The club owners are ultimately to blame for the manager changes which have given direction changes and a distinct lack of long distance planning, so a player favoured by one manager gets a huge deal then when that manager is gone next month the player is left floundering not being able to follow the new managers directions.
The manager needs to know he will be given the chance to show the new shoots he has planted have taken root and starting to produce.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I agree, don't hold it against them, they'll be rich forever and give their extended families chances at better lives.

Just a shame when a promising talent goes to waste. We will all forget Duran soon unless his attitude is a problem over there and he comes back to Europe quickly - which is more than possible.

But how many knew of him before his performances at Villa?

 

[Bdill93]

But how many knew of him before his performances at Villa?

Chicago Fire fans....

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Chicago Fire fans....

Is that the league for football pensioners and amateurs?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

No club in the prem would pay Mainoo 200k a week other than man united.

That's all you need to know - its Rashford V2 - never worth even close to 300k a week

I think Chelsea might have something to say about that

 

[Arthur Wedge]

No club in the prem would pay Mainoo 200k a week other than man united.

That's all you need to know - its Rashford V2 - never worth even close to 300k a week

You would be surprised

Mainoo looks like someone that has a bright future , there will be clubs that will pay it

But right now he has a contract until 2027 so doesn’t matter what other clubs will pay , unless Man Utd want to see him he sticks with that current contract or lower his demands

 

[Swango1980]

I recall being lambasted here when I questioned Rashford’s attitude a year or so ago, despite it being plainly obvious to anyone who actually watched him play football. He has been stinking the club out for too long, and they will be well rid of him.

Ten Hag’s approach was a curious one, and was at odds with his treatment of both Ronaldo and Sancho. Both were unceremoniously dumped, whilst Rashford received little more than a slap across the knuckles for repeated behind the scenes transgressions and performances which were consistently poor.

I’m delighted that Amorim is confronting the problem head on. He’s trying to rebuild pretty much from scratch, and clearly doesn’t want anyone around his squad unless they are totally committed to the cause. He’s sending a message to the club, the owners, the squad and the fans. And he’s absolutely right to do it.

I can see why ETH made that approach though. Rashford obviously banged in the goals in ETH's first season, so he wasn't going to kick him out of the side then. He was rewarded with a big juicy contract (too much) and going into the second season there was a lot of expectation. Rashford was also the local boy, so I'd imagine strong discipline towards him at the first sign of poor play and bad training may be used as a weapon (and given how Rashford and his people have reacted at the first sign of adversity when Amorim walked through the door, I can tee why ETH would be tentative in doing what Amorim has done).

At this stage, it is very easy for Amorim to absolutely hammer every single player he doesn't think is good enough or isn't working hard enough. It isn't his team, so nobody is going to point the finger at Amorim at this stage and say he is the problem. But, in 12 months time, if Utd have made 5 or 6 signings and certain players are still garbage and thus impacting team performances, he is probably going to have to manage things differently. Because people will start pointing the finger at him, saying he should be getting the best out of players, many of the players are his players, etc. Exactly like they did with ETH. Rashford could the equivalent of ETH's Ronaldo problem for Amorim. But, even if we get rid of that one, who will be next? If Amad suddenly falls off a cliff next season and becomes ineffective, will he be dropped? Or, will Amorim still see him as having more potential than other players, and desperate to give him game time to get his form back? If he drops Amad, will sections of fans blame Amorim because Amad had shown he can do it, and Amorim needs to coach the player properly (even if, behind the scenes, Amad has just lost complete focus)

I do agree that I think ETH could easily have dropped Rashford much sooner. To be honest, I'd say the same about Bruno. But, when we have left Bruno out, we have often looked even worse than we are with him. So, given weaknesses throughout the squad, it almost seems a logical option to try and continue working with Bruno and Rashford, because there are players in there somewhere and you hope your best chance of finding that player is playing them rather than winding them up. I'm sure Rashford would have played a decent amount, had he not done that interview with Winter and basically publicly given up. Garnacho got back in after being completely left out, and Amorim was clearly hurt when Rashford did what he did, when he was first asked about it when it happened. Had Rashford done that when ETH was in charge, I'm pretty sure ETH would have dropped him as well.

 

[Bdill93]

You would be surprised

Mainoo looks like someone that has a bright future , there will be clubs that will pay it

But right now he has a contract until 2027 so doesn’t matter what other clubs will pay , unless Man Utd want to see him he sticks with that current contract or lower his demands

Bright futures don't deserve 200k a week, proven talents do. Let him earn his money, rewarding players that much too soon has not worked for United.

There's probably only 5 clubs that actually have players on 200+ a week to be fair - United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool.

He'd be on 75k a week at a club like Villa.

 

[Swango1980]

Contracts

Mental in the sport

We have had a few people looking at those and been very frugal in regards what the players get and a lot of the renewals are based on performance based and also age

Mo was given a contract that broke the wage structure a couple years back

But hearing that Mainoo wants £200k does seem madness but what’s the going rate now

We have 3 big players going through contract talks

Lots of calls to “give them what they want” etc

But two of them whilst still two of the best in the league if not the world are mid 30’s - it’s very clear the club are reluctant to give them big wages and long contracts because that “wall” could happen any time soon

All the players see is the massive amount of money coming in from telly revenues etc

We it seems have just earned £100mil alone from the CL - the players want a slice of that pie


I would love to see every club and league having some sort of wage limit

On that point, I'd assume a much better idea for Clubs would be do add bonuses into contracts based on success domestically and Europe. Pretty sure that is generally what they do, as I remember people saying a big reason Maguire didn't want to leave because he was due various bonuses for Champions League qualifications.

If a club wins all sorts of trophies and makes the club large amounts of money, then the players should absolutely get a piece of that. What annoys me at Utd is that players are just given huge amounts of money, and then they can sit back and scratch their backside for 5 years. Certainly seems to be little incentive for them to drive for success.

 

[Swango1980]

Bright futures don't deserve 200k a week, proven talents do. Let him earn his money, rewarding players that much too soon has not worked for United.

There's probably only 5 clubs that actually have players on 200+ a week to be fair - United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool.

He'd be on 75k a week at a club like Villa.

Completely agree. And I'd have thought a good agent would try and negotiate a sensible salary for them. One that gives them a good amount of money so that they don't feel they are underpaid (relative their peers at that level), but a salary that leave them lots of room to maximise in the future, and gives the player an incentive to continue to develop and strive for those bigger salaries.

 

[Bdill93]

Completely agree. And I'd have thought a good agent would try and negotiate a sensible salary for them. One that gives them a good amount of money so that they don't feel they are underpaid (relative their peers at that level), but a salary that leave them lots of room to maximise in the future, and gives the player an incentive to continue to develop and strive for those bigger salaries.

That's the thing - Villa's model is a bit like that

Rogers came in last January, went straight into the first team and did well - Club recognised it and gave him a new deal within 6 months of him joining to boost his money and pay him a fair wage for his performances.

He's still on 50k less per week than players like Digne, Watkins, Tilemans etc but his next deal I'm sure will make him equitable with them - or more!

Play well, earn your money.