On current form, four wins from five, you think they’ll struggle? Not sure about that…
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Can anyone predict United this year? The only team they seem to turn up against is Aston Villa
Oh I think Man Utd will struggle to finish in the European spots if they don’t start playing better soon but their recent form is good, albeit performances haven’t been convincing at all.Can anyone predict United this year? The only team they seem to turn up against is Aston Villa
Swango1980
Well-known member
I have serious doubts.
After the run we were on, and even with Martinez out (who I actually believe could be our most important player, in terms of ability and sheer presence, the only guy I can truly say feels like a real leader), I was pretty positive going into games, albeit not obviously confident we'd win. But I just liked the set up we had at that time.
But, as soon as I heard Hojlund was injured, my positivity was sucked clean out of me. Not just because he was scoring goals, but his effort, his intelligent runs and his unselfishness and desire to link up with others made me feel there was a real chance in any game. But, with him out, the hope of providing any attacking threat has all but gone. Perhaps Garnacho gives a glimmer of hope, but if he is the only glimmer, it is all too easy for teams to focus on defending against him, and not worry about the impotent No.9 Rashford and the ridiculously frustrating Bruno. For the first 6 months Bruno was settling into the team, he was fantastic. He really looked to try and integrate himself within that team, played smart balls and great balls when the chances arrived. But now, I think he has got carried away in his own hype. He now sees himself as the star of the team, and it is almost like he now thinks he has to do something ridiculously special everytime he gets the ball, which is impossible to do most of the time. Especially when his team mates are not great around him.
One thing I wondered, on a very slight mitigation to Rashford's lack of effort. Could he be knackered most of the time because he is expected to chase so many of Bruno's Hollywood passes, and fed up many of them are lost causes?
Anyway, I have absolutely no idea where Utd will get a goal from, and as they push forward to try and find solutions, I think Forest will have many chances to counter. My heart says Utd will turn up and play some kind of nice football, but my brain is telling me not to be a fool.
Hard to argue with those points. The best I was hoping for was a draw as Fulham have their own issues around goals and defending so it was as much a surprise to me. Somewhere though the buck has to stop with EtH and he's either got to get Rashford motivated and playing, Bruno to be more conservative and respect possession and find something to spark the side. The run of wins did plaster over the cracks for a short while but I think more and more teams are working out how to play United especially without Hojlund who looks the only real player out there most weeks that has any intent or desire.
It may be carnage at the weekend though but you do then have winnable games against Everton and Sheffield United although April looks a tough month. Europa Conference at best??????
Swango1980
Well-known member
Not making Europe would be no disaster to me personally, although it does help the finances. Don't get me wrong, I want them to be in Europe, but I can't see them being very competitive.
Yes, the manager has to take on a lot of responsibility. No manager makes 100% perfect decisions, not even Pep. So, I will question some of the thing ETH does at times. That being said, there are also a lot of things he has done that I'm very pleased with. But these very rarely get focused on, when everyone, including mainstream media, want to criticize every single factor when things are not going so well. I always knew that it would take several years to build anything, and just because we exceeded expectations last season, never felt we were a shoe in to better that season after season. I knew there would likely be peaks and troughs, but hopefully we would see improvements over longer 3-4 year spells.
Football has a way of sacking managers very quickly, so would I be surprised if ETH gets the boot before next season? No. But I'd be disappointed. I don't think any other manager that could come in would suddenly guarantee we'd play any better based on the squad at the moment, and I think ETH will soon be 2 years in to being manager, and have a lot more experience as to where we are really poor, where he might have made poor decisions, and be in a better position to move forward.
There doesn't seem to be any longevity in managership anymore and no-one especially at the top end of the PL has had any time, with perhaps the exception of Klopp to really build anything. Fans want success and owners want the £ and $ and managers simply don't have 3-4 windows to get the dead wood out and bring in the players they want and suiting their style. At some point you can't keep hiring to top managers currently out of work or en vogue for massive fees and due massive compensation if they fail and expect instant results. While it is a result business, to be build anything of longevity and sustainability takes times and sometimes mistakes need to be made along the way to recognise the correct path to take. If it's not EtH, then who next and does the sands of time start as soon as they are appointed. People forget Ferige and Wenger both had the time and backing to do things their way and with backing to build top sides
Junior
Tour Winner
To be honest, do I think we have broken FFP. 100% is my gut feeling. By how much. Not a clue. Would City be worth £4/5 Billion now if they had not broke FFP. Not a cat in hells chance. They had to spend to get themselves into a position that is now sustainable.
Ratcliffe at Utd wants to transform Utd and the south of Manchester. City have done that spending there owners money in the east of Manchester . He is allowed to do that. But not spend his own money on the team. Eh.The acadamy and the new 22,000 indoor arena at the back of Citys ground will continue to bring in millions and millions.
There is a train of thought that money gives an unfair advantage. I get that to an extent. So explain how Chelsea and Utd have royally screwed up. City allegedly breaking FFP happened at a time when Utd and Chelsea are wasting billions on players. Fans are watching football in a dump of a ground at Old Trafford. At the same time that City fans and Spurs fans watch there team In state of the art stadiums. Utd has not held a champions league game for 21 years.
Re Forest, I feel for them. When exactly is the end of season financial year ending.Heres a thought. One minute after the transfer window closes.
Utd haven’t screwed up Tash…..we’ve had dreadful owners who’ve taken from the club and not put back into the development of the club/ground. That’s why there’s been protests etc.
Fair play to City’s owners for doing what the Glayser’s have not.
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Bazz
Q-School Graduate
Can anyone predict United this year? The only team they seem to turn up against is Aston Villa
That's because Villa Park is like a home game for them.
GB72
Money List Winner
I know it has been the case for years and this is not criticism aimed at any club, in fact I am interested to know when it started, but when did managers start going to a club with a 'style' and then having to buy in players to suit what they want to do. Surely a manager should go into a club, assess what he has and then put a team on the pitch playing and brand of football that suits the players he has.
Maybe it has never been this way and it is a case of rose tinted specs but it just makes no sense, it is like sending a new CEO into the company then sacking the staff and recruiting again from scratch.
Maybe it has never been this way and it is a case of rose tinted specs but it just makes no sense, it is like sending a new CEO into the company then sacking the staff and recruiting again from scratch.
This really comes down to the recruitment of the manager for me. Take Brighton for example. When Potter left they brought in a manager that they knew would play in a similar fashion. Different manager, no need to change the players or the playing philosophy. If you get that right you don't get a patchwork quilt of a football squad (something I can talk about as an Everton fan
). The manager then becomes as interchangeable as the left back and it is not a shock to the club when one leaves.The owners / CEO or whatever really need to do their homework before appointing the manager. I agree that managers need to be more pragmatic but that is the reality of things now.
Bazz
Q-School Graduate
Always hear their fans mention "the West Ham way", when pointing out Moyes' style of football not suiting the club. At least his boring football has won them something.
fundy
Ryder Cup Winner
Football has changed massively stylistically over the last decade or so but not all clubs play the same style and some players are clearly suited to some styles and not others. The issue with a lot of clubs is not having a clear direction (often owner driven) and a decent director of football who co-ordinates the recruitment, how the academy sides play and ultimately who the manager is. A coherent plan saves a lot of the issues of bringing in a manager with a different style and having to change large parts of the whole set up. Thats not to say clubs cant develop their style and approach over time
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Legit...
Almost every day I hear west Ham fans on Talksport complaining that the football isn't exciting under Moyes, well newsflash, you can play solid football and win more often or you can play nice attractive football and lose more often...
Burnley are trying to "play football" that's going swimmingly well isn't it....
West Ham fans will soon miss Moyes when they drop back to a 14th and below but are "entertained"
GB72
Money List Winner
I guess what I am saying is that the club and the players do not need to change styles, it is more that managers are saying that that they can only coach, train and play one style. Surely a manager should be able to go into a club and play a style that suits the players he has and then integrate different aspects as new personnel become available rather than try and impose an unsuitable style of play on a club and then complain that the players are not there to play how they want.
It's a balance though. We suffered a period of Allardyce at Everton and it was horrible. Football isn't cheap to go and watch and not many people want to cough up and pay to watch a dirge. Results matter, but then so does enjoying what you are seeing as well. You can take a short term hit but long term, you need more.
It doesn't have to be a binary choice, entertainment or win, surely as a Villa fan @Bdill93 you can see that? You are getting both right now.
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
I am yes, but there's not many managers that can actually deliver both.
And - beauty is in the eyes of the beholder - Arsenal fans hated Emery's football!
fundy
Ryder Cup Winner
I think theres very few managers that would fall into that category, the majority (especially the better ones) have developed a style that works for them and often a coaching team that helps them deliver that style. Yes they could change their style and do ok, but they would expect to do better given their own style and players to suit and thats surely what you want from an elite manager at the top of professional sport?
Not only football either, plenty of rugby sides that want their 10 to kick it all the time who then waste a decent running fly half. Plenty of good cricketers not going to get a gig under Bazball etc
fundy
Ryder Cup Winner
Do you really think Emery is the same manager he was at Arsenal? Hes massively evolved (a large part of which came from his time at Arsenal and then developing his style/himself further based on his own comments) then further time in La Liga, he has also had more of a say in the players at his disposal at Villa. Add in different expectations and then results and no surprise youre far happier than most Arsenal fans were with Emery. But its not comparing like with like totally
Swango1980
Well-known member
It's true that some clubs like to sack managers every other week it seems. Which is bizarre. Unless the manager does something extreme that deserves the sacking, surely sacking a manager after a bad set of results is a sure sign the Owners got it completely wrong in the first place. So, the Owners are making really bad decisions. Either on who they employ in the 1st place, or by sacking them far too quickly. But then again, fans can "over-react" as well, and pressure the Owners into these decisions (e.g. I think Moyes is getting a lot of flack that is a bit over the top to be honest).
I actually think Utd have been fairly decent. OK, Moyes only had about a season, although I think many managers would be a sacrificial lamb after the rarity of having Sir Alex.
Van Gaal had about 3 seasons. He was a colourful character, but he certainly had a way of winding people up the wrong way and the style of football was pretty poor (but pretty efficient). Mourinho got into his 3rd season. But, there was a cloud over his head every time you saw him, he didn't seem committed (living out of a hotel), and I think the time was right for him to go. When Ole took over, suddenly there was a huge lift from the players, played some great football, and it seemed clear they had all suffered under Mourinho. Ole should never really have been employed full time, and when he was, we suddenly were dire again. Yet, the club still gave him 3 years in the job, much longer than most could have expected.
So, I personally think Ten Hag has done more than enough to at least get into his 3rd season. Maybe even a bit longer, given the direction of travel may be much different now with recruitment and culture within the club generally. I certainly don't think he has done anything shocking enough to get the sack this season.
