The Footie Thread

[Piece]

5-0. Have Lens lost focus?

 

[GreiginFife]

5-0. Have Lens lost focus?

Developed a few cracks

 

[nickjdavis]

93rd minute: Ball clearly hits Copenhagen defenders arm after being played at them from close range which is outstretched and probably not in a natural position. (ball is played down into the ground by the Bayern forward and it rears up hitting the underside of the outstretched upper arm before then hitting the defenders body.
Penalty awarded to Bayern.
VAR asks ref to check the screen.
Ref overturns their decision.

 

[Swango1980]

93rd minute: Ball clearly hits Copenhagen defenders arm which is very outstretched.
Penalty awarded to Bayern.
VAR asks ref to check the screen.
Ref overturns their decision.

Didn't see it, but if it is as described, doesn't surprise me.

They make a huge howler one day. The next day they try not to repeat this, and make the howler in the complete opposite direction.

I suspect a lot of VAR decisions are based on what the officials think the public reaction will be, rather than just trying to focus on the job independent of worrying what the reaction will be.

 

[nickjdavis]

Didn't see it, but if it is as described, doesn't surprise me.

They make a huge howler one day. The next day they try not to repeat this, and make the howler in the complete opposite direction.

I suspect a lot of VAR decisions are based on what the officials think the public reaction will be, rather than just trying to focus on the job independent of worrying what the reaction will be.

sorry...i fleshed out my original description to provide more clarity as to the circumstance rather than my original initial words that i managed to get down whilst shouting at the telly....still far more a penalty than PSG's last night.

 

[4LEX]

Didn't see it, but if it is as described, doesn't surprise me.

They make a huge howler one day. The next day they try not to repeat this, and make the howler in the complete opposite direction.

I suspect a lot of VAR decisions are based on what the officials think the public reaction will be, rather than just trying to focus on the job independent of worrying what the reaction will be.

Very true. I reckon VAR would be better if Neville and Carragher were in charge of it in the Sky Sports studio. And I genuinely mean that, which shows how badly wrong VAR has gone.

 

[Tashyboy]

93rd minute: Ball clearly hits Copenhagen defenders arm after being played at them from close range which is outstretched and probably not in a natural position. (ball is played down into the ground by the Bayern forward and it rears up hitting the underside of the outstretched upper arm before then hitting the defenders body.
Penalty awarded to Bayern.
VAR asks ref to check the screen.
Ref overturns their decision.

When I posted the handball rules the other day, The recommendations were that if it deflects off another part of the body it should not be handball. UEFA never accepted the recommendations. By that reckoning, the PSG penalty the other night should be allowed. The two from last night should have been given And were not.
However, last nights two decisions were wrong according to the rules. Yet the PSG game, the VAR Official was stood down for last night for doing his job correctly. It really is a mess.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

93rd minute: Ball clearly hits Copenhagen defenders arm after being played at them from close range which is outstretched and probably not in a natural position. (ball is played down into the ground by the Bayern forward and it rears up hitting the underside of the outstretched upper arm before then hitting the defenders body.
Penalty awarded to Bayern.
VAR asks ref to check the screen.
Ref overturns their decision.

When decisions go against teams your supposed to Suck it up because refs are human they make mistakes and you must respect the referees decisions etc.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

A crossover thought from the Scottish Football thread.

Europa League 5th August 2021. Galatasary 1 - 1 St Johnstone

Ah football…Is it really only just over 2yrs since these heady double cup winning days.

(we lost the return home leg 4-2, nonetheless…)

 

[nickjdavis]

When I posted the handball rules the other day, The recommendations were that if it deflects off another part of the body it should not be handball. UEFA never accepted the recommendations. By that reckoning, the PSG penalty the other night should be allowed. The two from last night should have been given And were not.
However, last nights two decisions were wrong according to the rules. Yet the PSG game, the VAR Official was stood down for last night for doing his job correctly. It really is a mess.

Never in the history of football has the age old terrace chant of "you don't know what you're doing" held more truth.

 

[Golfmmad]

93rd minute: Ball clearly hits Copenhagen defenders arm after being played at them from close range which is outstretched and probably not in a natural position. (ball is played down into the ground by the Bayern forward and it rears up hitting the underside of the outstretched upper arm before then hitting the defenders body.
Penalty awarded to Bayern.
VAR asks ref to check the screen.
Ref overturns their decision.

Is that how it was?
I thought the ref gave the penalty initially, VAR ruled to look at screen. Ref looked at screen and overturned her own decision, not var's.

 

[nickjdavis]

Is that how it was?
I thought the ref gave the penalty initially, VAR ruled to look at screen. Ref looked at screen and overturned her own decision, not var's.

"Their" - meaning the referee overturned their own decision.

I was trying to avoid using gender specific pronouns in case someone jumped on me claiming I was blaming the female ref who actually had a decent game for the most part.

 

[Piece]

Very true. I reckon VAR would be better if Neville and Carragher were in charge of it in the Sky Sports studio. And I genuinely mean that, which shows how badly wrong VAR has gone.

The Neville and Carragher double act who don't fully understand the laws; they had to have one of the laws explained to them mid-match last season! "I did not know that" was the response.

 

[rudebhoy]

Is that how it was?
I thought the ref gave the penalty initially, VAR ruled to look at screen. Ref looked at screen and overturned her own decision, not var's.

The thing is, when a referee is asked to review a decision, 99% of the time they reverse it. it's like an unwritten law for refs.

 

[Swango1980]

The thing is, when a referee is asked to review a decision, 99% of the time they reverse it. it's like an unwritten law for refs.

Well, it isn't surprising really.

Firstly, you'd expect the vast majority of decisions would be overturned anyway, as the VAR is only really supposed to call them over if they think the referee has made a mistake. If they think the referee made the correct decision, they don't call the referee over to talk about what an amazing decision they made, and show them why it was such a great decision.

So, when the onfield referee comes to the VAR screen, the assumption is that VAR thinks they may need to reconsider their decision, based on all the angles and time the 2/3 VAR officials have had to look at it. Howard Webb even said earlier in the season he wants VAR intervention as little as possible, and so the threshold had to be high to intervene.

I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of times VAR intervenes, it is actually correct in doing so and that reversing the decision is probably the correct call anyway. So, if you compare decisions made pre and post VAR, more correct ones are being made now. However, occasionally VAR officials make a howler of a decision to ask for a review, where pretty much EVERYONE disagrees with them. It is hard to explain why, but they are probably so tied up in the ever evolving written laws (many that try and make things black and white, despite the fact there will always be gray areas) and feel under pressure to intervene, in case they are accused of sleeping at the wheel. And once the onfield ref is called, if he disagrees with the VAR officials as he is happy with his original decision, then it is his opinion versus 2/3 other qualified officials sitting in VAR (officials qualified to the same standard as he is). So it could come across as arrogant to ignore them, and would certainly enrage fans, players and managers that the decision would go for if he didn't overturn the decision. Even if the onfield ref still thinks the original call was still just about right, it is easier to overturn the decision if VAR have given him any doubts at all, as they have reviewed the incident in much more depth than he has. If he was wrong to overturn it, he also knows most of the blame will be towards VAR for intervening in the 1st place.

There must be a better way to use it. VAR officials simply make too many mistakes, or get involved in very subjective decisions (one person thinks 100% one way, another 100% the other), and it continually enrages fans. Too many cooks spoil the broth. I thought having a few more voices in the VAR would be good, because if they didn't all 100% agree than they wouldn't intervene as that defines subjective. But, since hearing some of the VAR discussions, even when they don't all see the same thing, they often seem to convince each other that it is best to intervene anyway, just to be safe. I think it would be far better if the onfield referee was 100% in charge of VAR for penalties and red cards at least. If the referee is in any doubt, he can ask to review the footage. If he isn't in doubt, but players think he has missed something, they get 2 appeals per half or per match (they keep these if their appeal succeeds). The VAR is then only someone who controls the footage, but does not offer their own opinion. It is all on the onfield referee. I suppose offside calls can still be made by VAR, although it wants to be a lot lot quicker.

 

[nickjdavis]

I think the automated offside system used by UEFA/FIFA should speed things up an awful lot if our FA had the nous to adopt it.

Galatasaray "equalised" yesterday shortly before half time but was ruled out for offside. Now, to my mind, looking at the computerised images that the auto-offside system uses, there was no way on Earth that a human could determine if the attacker was offside. In the UK the VAR team would be drawing lines like a kid with an etch-a-sketch and spending 3,4,5 minutes to come to a decision. But in last nights game the auto system decided the forward was offside in 15 seconds or so. So a big improvement on what we are used to.

To be honest though....the margin of offside was so fine that I cannot conceive that it was the sort of situation that anyone would really want VAR intervening, but, if the automated computer system is that accurate (to the same degree as the ball over the line technology) then I guess its fair for everyone. Certainly its miles better than the red and blue lines our VAR teams use.

 

[Bdill93]

Big game for the Villa tonight! Looking forward to Thursday night under the lights at Villa Park.

We have to beat Warsaw by a couple of goals to go ahead of them in the group on head to head. Top the group and we get a bye through the next round where Europa League drop downs come in and play 2nd place finishers in their groups!

All the faith that we will get the job done!

UTV!!!

 

[IanM]

West Ham stinking the place out.

 

[clubchamp98]

well done to Brighton..

 

[Deleted member 21784]

West Ham stinking the place out.

Rested a lot of players

Delighted for cornet to come on and get the assist

Not pretty but avoid defeat on 14th December and we top the group