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The Footie Thread

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Orikoru said:
I'd say Rice, Saka and Foden are not very far off being world class as well. We've got five players there in midfield and attack who'd get in most countries' teams in the world. We're a bit lacking in central defence and in goal. Unfortunately our manager's response to that is to act as if he's managing Dyche-era Burnley, defend first and try and nick a goal on the break. Rather than using the attacking talent we have to outscore the opposition.

Agree with you that other nations have all declined - most notably Germany and Italy, while also Spain and Brazil are not near the best teams that we've seen. International football is always going to cyclical like that, since you can't 'sign' players it's just luck of the draw how much quality is in each generation. All the more reason we need to strike while the iron is hot here, and get a manager who isn't going to waste the talent we have this time.

We definitely wasted the Gerrard etc generation with poor management. How many managers came in and tried 4-4-2 again, with Scholes wide left, Gerrard & Lampard middle even though neither could play holding midfield? We're currently in danger of becoming the next Belgium, who have now bypassed their golden generation and won nothing because they gave them to a man who still dines out on one FA Cup with Wigan a decade ago.
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I think that is a bit extreme, I don't think he is trying to hit teams on the break when his own team have over 70% possession of the ball.

Most of the attacking players that played last night did not have their best game, and they had enough of the ball to play attacking football. Bringing on one or 2 more attacking players instead of defensive ones may not have helped. Grealish massively slagged off, yet Rashford would also be massively slagged off by fans. TAA was ineffective, Saka was ineffective, Watkins was ineffective. And if England decided to be even more aggressive in attack, and the players were still ineffective / Macedonia defended well, then you risk exposing your "lacking central defence" to more attacks on the break. For me, it is exactly where Man Utd have been a shambles for years. As soon as they try and play more attacking football, they can get killed on the break.

If you are in the very rare position of having a team of players like Cafu, Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho and Kaka then you could probably get away with looking to outscore your opponents. Most opponents would probably be frozen with fear playing against such players, most of whom their own club sides built their teams around. I don't think England are in that position. They have some very good players, but I think England fans overestimate how good they are generally. If they tried to play gung-ho attack, it could fail spectacularly. It is pretty much why Man Utd have been a shambles for many games, play Attack Attack Attack, opposition defend hard and then kill us on the counter. Therefore, setting them up to be as solid defensively as possible may not be a bad thing to do, and then hope the qualities of the attacking players on the pitch can do their thing, and also hoping their relationships and understanding improve over time
 
Swango1980 said:
I think that is a bit extreme, I don't think he is trying to hit teams on the break when his own team have over 70% possession of the ball.

Most of the attacking players that played last night did not have their best game, and they had enough of the ball to play attacking football. Bringing on one or 2 more attacking players instead of defensive ones may not have helped. Grealish massively slagged off, yet Rashford would also be massively slagged off by fans. TAA was ineffective, Saka was ineffective, Watkins was ineffective. And if England decided to be even more aggressive in attack, and the players were still ineffective / Macedonia defended well, then you risk exposing your "lacking central defence" to more attacks on the break. For me, it is exactly where Man Utd have been a shambles for years. As soon as they try and play more attacking football, they can get killed on the break.

If you are in the very rare position of having a team of players like Cafu, Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho and Kaka then you could probably get away with looking to outscore your opponents. Most opponents would probably be frozen with fear playing against such players, most of whom their own club sides built their teams around. I don't think England are in that position. They have some very good players, but I think England fans overestimate how good they are generally. If they tried to play gung-ho attack, it could fail spectacularly. It is pretty much why Man Utd have been a shambles for many games, play Attack Attack Attack, opposition defend hard and then kill us on the counter. Therefore, setting them up to be as solid defensively as possible may not be a bad thing to do, and then hope the qualities of the attacking players on the pitch can do their thing, and also hoping their relationships and understanding improve over time
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I see England as a bit similar to Spurs were early this season. With a full strength team we can do it, take the game to the opponents. As soon as a few key links are taken out though it falls apart because the back-up players are a huge drop-off. Watkins for example, good player but miles short of Kane's level. Likewise whoever comes in for Rice or Bellingham is well short of their level. Grealish as discussed isn't the player he was, Rashford as discussed very limited and inconsistent. The full strength first team though, can go toe-to-toe with anyone.
 
Dando said:
i dont understand how people can slag off Henderson for playing in a farmers league but let Phillips off when he probably spends more time playing with himself than playing for City
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In all honesty, I've heard no positive comments about Phillips either.

But, Phillips is 27 years old and fans may still think he COULD have a future for England if he went to another PL club and started playing again. Henderson is 33 years old, and moving to Saudi Arabia sends us all a big sign that he is now signing out of top level football altogether, and simply spending his twilight years building his pension pot. So, it is fair to assume he probably doesn't / shouldn't have much of a future for England. I think it is unlikely he'll ever move back to a top PL club, or a club like Real Madrid or Bayern to show he still has some of his best footballing years ahead of him.
 
Orikoru said:
I see England as a bit similar to Spurs were early this season. With a full strength team we can do it, take the game to the opponents. As soon as a few key links are taken out though it falls apart because the back-up players are a huge drop-off. Watkins for example, good player but miles short of Kane's level. Likewise whoever comes in for Rice or Bellingham is well short of their level. Grealish as discussed isn't the player he was, Rashford as discussed very limited and inconsistent. The full strength first team though, can go toe-to-toe with anyone.
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Yeah, I probably agree. I think most teams would fear Bellingham and Kane, and both those players have the personality to back up their ability. I think they'd relish playing against any side.

Everything else is a bit flaky. They have players who can bring excellent qualities to the table. But they also bring frustrations and inconsistencies as well. If England didn't have Kane and Bellingham available, then I'd be very concerned about England's chances.
 
So Utd defence gets ripped open on the counter attack, but you defend England playing a Utd second 11 defender who is a liability in any shirt.
Maguire is a brake on any swift attack and using the possession stats as a positive is pointless when you pass the ball constantly between the defence and even in attack, turn and pass back to the keeper.
 
Bunkermagnet said:
So Utd defence gets ripped open on the counter attack, but you defend England playing a Utd second 11 defender who is a liability in any shirt.
Maguire is a brake on any swift attack and using the possession stats as a positive is pointless when you pass the ball constantly between the defence and even in attack, turn and pass back to the keeper.
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He isn't a liability in any shirt. Man Utd didn't buy him as he was a liability at previous clubs, and he wasn't a liability in a Utd shirt to begin with. But, the team became a liability the way they played, and the result was they conceded rapid attacks against the heart of their defence. If VVD had been at CB, I don't think he'd have enjoyed being exposed to such rapid attacks so often.

Maguire has been much better this season, it has kept the critics quiet. But of course, a couple of dodgy passes in one game, and the inability of 5-6 attacking England players in putting the game to bed, and suddenly it is Maguire is the liability again :)
 
Can we leave Watkins alone please.

You have to actually be passed the ball to do anything with it :ROFLMAO:

He's not Harry Kane, he's a very different player but if used well he's very efficient. A solid backup but only if they play to his strengths. Same as Wilson tbh
 
Bdill93 said:
Can we leave Watkins alone please.

You have to actually be passed the ball to do anything with it :ROFLMAO:

He's not Harry Kane, he's a very different player but if used well he's very efficient. A solid backup but only if they play to his strengths. Same as Wilson tbh
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Who slated Watkins? Not being as good as Kane isn't a criticism it's just a fact.
 
Bdill93 said:
Can we leave Watkins alone please.

You have to actually be passed the ball to do anything with it :ROFLMAO:

He's not Harry Kane, he's a very different player but if used well he's very efficient. A solid backup but only if they play to his strengths. Same as Wilson tbh
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Not really slagging him off. He's been excellent at Villa, and I'm sure he is capable of scoring goals for England (although he looked to miss a ridiculously easy free header from a few yards out just after Rice hit the post, but we'll forget about that one).

But, despite being a very good player, I think it is fair to say most would consider him a huge downgrade on Harry Kane.
 
On a positive note, great to see San Marino have now scored in 3 consecutive games for the first time ever. I think they are really starting to build on their 0-0 draw with Estonia in 2014, and they could well be on their way to draw another game in the next 15-20 years. You heard it here first.
 
Swango1980 said:
On a positive note, great to see San Marino have now scored in 3 consecutive games for the first time ever. I think they are really starting to build on their 0-0 draw with Estonia in 2014, and they could well be on their way to draw another game in the next 15-20 years. You heard it here first.
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When are they next playing England?
 
One thing not mentioned from Last nights bore fest. Three players were from City’s academy. However with the English players available I don’t think
Pep would have played all three. Furthermore the five City players that played. I don’t think Pep would have chucked Phillips or Rico Lewis in that squad either.
 
Tashyboy said:
One thing not mentioned from Last nights bore fest. Three players were from City’s academy. However with the English players available I don’t think
Pep would have played all three. Furthermore the five City players that played. I don’t think Pep would have chucked Phillips or Rico Lewis in that squad either.
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It seems Man City are destroying English players, that is the only conclusion I can reach :)
 
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