The Footie Thread

[Lord Tyrion]

It depends how you define flop. He hasn't been great, but the entire team is a flop. Pogba, to many, is still one of the most talented in an awful team. It is not like he is out of his depth amongst those players. So, if you are purely going on transfer fee and whether a player was part of a successful side, then your definition could be correct (also need to consider the inflation of transfer fees through the years). But, not necessarily if you are just going on how bad the player was within the team they became part off.

Forlan, Kleberson, Djembe Djembe and Sanchez were arguably bigger flops at Utd. Bentley and Rebrov at Spurs. Kezman, Shevchenko and Mutu at Chelsea. Boumsong at Newcastle. Diao, Aquilani and Carroll at Liverpool. Brolin at Leeds. Jeffers at Arsenal.

Personally, I would rather have Pogba in my side than many of those players, even if it meant he was still more expensive after inflation was accounted for. I'm not saying Pogba is amazing, but there have been some stinkers in the 30 years of the Premier League, I bet there are more than I forgot about.

You can't miss Veron from any list like that. He was the daddy for many years.

 

[Swango1980]

You can't miss Veron from any list like that. He was the daddy for many years.

Yeah, I did consider it. Though, he wasn't really that bad. It was just we had Keane and Scholes in the middle. I think we could have bought pretty much any player in the world and they would have looked poor in comparison.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

You can't miss Veron from any list like that. He was the daddy for many years.

Think you can add Benteke at £40+ million at Liverpool. Plenty of sides have had players with big reputations that never produced it and Pogba is just one of many. How much of that is down to the side he's playing with is open to discussion but with his talent surely he should be a shining light in a fog of mediocrity

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It depends how you define flop. He hasn't been great, but the entire team is a flop. Pogba, to many, is still one of the most talented in an awful team. It is not like he is out of his depth amongst those players. So, if you are purely going on transfer fee and whether a player was part of a successful side, then your definition could be correct (also need to consider the inflation of transfer fees through the years). But, not necessarily if you are just going on how bad the player was within the team they became part off.

Forlan, Kleberson, Djembe Djembe and Sanchez were arguably bigger flops at Utd. Bentley and Rebrov at Spurs. Kezman, Shevchenko and Mutu at Chelsea. Boumsong at Newcastle. Diao, Aquilani and Carroll at Liverpool. Brolin at Leeds. Jeffers at Arsenal.

Personally, I would rather have Pogba in my side than many of those players, even if it meant he was still more expensive after inflation was accounted for. I'm not saying Pogba is amazing, but there have been some stinkers in the 30 years of the Premier League, I bet there are more than I forgot about.

The club spent a world record £90mil on him and what they have got from Pogba is nowhere near the level of what’s needed

It’s a huge expensive flop - your greatest manager had no issues getting rid of him yet someone paid £90mins to bring him back

It’s been over 5 years since he has been back and his has been there through each manager and it’s been a failure

I think it’s great that Man Utd fans want to keep him and seem to be hanging on to some forlorn hope that he finally comes good

Any other top club would have just got rid by now

He isn’t suited to the Prem - it has just been an expensive failure , prob just overtakes Veron as one of the biggest flops in the Prem

 

[Swango1980]

The club spent a world record £90mil on him and what they have got from Pogba is nowhere near the level of what’s needed

It’s a huge expensive flop - your greatest manager had no issues getting rid of him yet someone paid £90mins to bring him back

It’s been over 5 years since he has been back and his has been there through each manager and it’s been a failure

I think it’s great that Man Utd fans want to keep him and seem to be hanging on to some forlorn hope that he finally comes good

Any other top club would have just got rid by now

He isn’t suited to the Prem - it has just been an expensive failure , prob just overtakes Veron as one of the biggest flops in the Prem

I think you are having an argument no one is having. In reality, no one in here is saying Pogba has been a success, or that he has been value for money. Everyone actually agrees with these things you are saying. The conversation simply got going because, despite the failure of Paul Pogba, he is still the best of a bad bunch, in terms of technical ability (not necessarily mentality). Therefore, that is why 100% of fans are not demanding he gets booted out of the club. It is not like he is quite clearly performing abysmally in comparison to his team mates, he still at least shows potential to be an important part of a team (whether that is at United, I am extremely doubtful).

My response to you was simply your statement he was the biggest flop in history in the PL, which is open to interpretation. If you moved this Man Utd team back and forth in time, so that they were buying Pogba at the same time some of these other awful signings were made by other clubs, Utd would obviously have not paid £89 million for Pogba. They may have still paid more, but no where near £89 million. They'd have paid the equivalent to record transfer fees at that particular time. And, as I was saying, if that was the case I'd still have Pogba in this Utd team, than Francis Jeffers, Carroll, Benteke, Brolin, etc. So, that would mean that, in my opinion Pogba is not the biggest flop in PL history.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think you are having an argument no one is having. In reality, no one in here is saying Pogba has been a success, or that he has been value for money. Everyone actually agrees with these things you are saying. The conversation simply got going because, despite the failure of Paul Pogba, he is still the best of a bad bunch, in terms of technical ability (not necessarily mentality). Therefore, that is why 100% of fans are not demanding he gets booted out of the club. It is not like he is quite clearly performing abysmally in comparison to his team mates, he still at least shows potential to be an important part of a team (whether that is at United, I am extremely doubtful).

My response to you was simply your statement he was the biggest flop in history in the PL, which is open to interpretation. If you moved this Man Utd team back and forth in time, so that they were buying Pogba at the same time some of these other awful signings were made by other clubs, Utd would obviously have not paid £89 million for Pogba. They may have still paid more, but no where near £89 million. They'd have paid the equivalent to record transfer fees at that particular time. And, as I was saying, if that was the case I'd still have Pogba in this Utd team, than Francis Jeffers, Carroll, Benteke, Brolin, etc. So, that would mean that, in my opinion Pogba is not the biggest flop in PL history.

Argument ? Where is the argument ?

It’s called a debate - I called Pogba a flop and then enhanced my opinion on why I believe he is a flop and the most expensive one in Prem history

Brolin , Jeffers etc are irrelevant- this is just about Pogba

The rest of your post is just white noise - maybe you are trying to persuade yourself that it would be a good thing to keep him .

It shows that I suspect most rival fans will be happy for Pogba to stay at Utd - because he is the poster boy for the teams failures

The good news is Maguire isn’t too far behind as well - that’s £80mil worth of failure there as well

 

[Junior]

Pogba is the best player in the Prem for 10 games a season.

He's flopped as he's always injured, not bothered , too busy learning a new dance etc etc.

Low and behold his contract is up and he needs to start playing again. So the rumours circulate that he wants to stay , he'll work hard in training, and will start to play well again so his stock will rise.

Get him and his scumbag agent away from the club. I'd rather have DVB in the team than pay him £500k + a week.

 

[Bdill93]

Pogba is the best player in the Prem for 10 games a season.

He's flopped as he's always injured, not bothered , too busy learning a new dance etc etc.

Low and behold his contract is up and he needs to start playing again. So the rumours circulate that he wants to stay , he'll work hard in training, and will start to play well again so his stock will rise.

Get him and his scumbag agent away from the club. I'd rather have DVB in the team than pay him £500k + a week.

Bold statement that

 

[Swango1980]

Argument ? Where is the argument ?

It’s called a debate - I called Pogba a flop and then enhanced my opinion on why I believe he is a flop and the most expensive one in Prem history

Brolin , Jeffers etc are irrelevant- this is just about Pogba

The rest of your post is just white noise - maybe you are trying to persuade yourself that it would be a good thing to keep him .

It shows that I suspect most rival fans will be happy for Pogba to stay at Utd - because he is the poster boy for the teams failures

The good news is Maguire isn’t too far behind as well - that’s £80mil worth of failure there as well

Calm down. I know you get excited when you get to be critical over United. But, you are just making noise now.

The argument? You were trying to convince everyone Pogba was a flop, yet not one person said he had been a success. So, I was just clarifying there was no argument to be had over that. Thankfully you clarified that in you last post.

The debate WE were having is simply that, I do not agree that he is the BIGGEST flop in Premier League history. Of course Brolin and Jeffers are relevant, how are they not? How can you define the biggest flop in history, and then disregard other well known flops from the debate? Every flop is relevant in this discussion, whether you personally think they were a bigger flop or not.

I appreciate you are a Liverpool fan, and probably the type that one is likely to treat your opinion with a pinch of salt when it comes to Man Utd topics. Personally, I'd have Pogba in my side, than the Benteke or Carroll Liverpool bought. As far as I remember, Francis Jeffers was one of the most highly anticipated young strikers in PL history, and then was absolutely awful when he went to Arsenal. I don't even remember Arsenal fans saying he showed great quality in the off game, and just had to be more consistent.

 

[Junior]

Bold statement that

Just my opinion. I've watched him at his best, and his very worst. He can be a Rolls Royce of a player gliding across the pitch. Amazing touch, strong on the ball, great vision etc etc, but, I don't think I've seen a more inconsistent player in 35 years at OT.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Calm down. I know you get excited when you get to be critical over United. But, you are just making noise now.

The argument? You were trying to convince everyone Pogba was a flop, yet not one person said he had been a success. So, I was just clarifying there was no argument to be had over that. Thankfully you clarified that in you last post.

The debate WE were having is simply that, I do not agree that he is the BIGGEST flop in Premier League history. Of course Brolin and Jeffers are relevant, how are they not? How can you define the biggest flop in history, and then disregard other well known flops from the debate? Every flop is relevant in this discussion, whether you personally think they were a bigger flop or not.

I appreciate you are a Liverpool fan, and probably the type that one is likely to treat your opinion with a pinch of salt when it comes to Man Utd topics. Personally, I'd have Pogba in my side, than the Benteke or Carroll Liverpool bought. As far as I remember, Francis Jeffers was one of the most highly anticipated young strikers in PL history, and then was absolutely awful when he went to Arsenal. I don't even remember Arsenal fans saying he showed great quality in the off game, and just had to be more consistent.

?? Im calm , it’s just a debate and I don’t need to “convince” anyone ??

If you want to convince yourself and use other irrelevant players as some comparison then crack on ??

Just my opinion. I've watched him at his best, and his very worst. He can be a Rolls Royce of a player gliding across the pitch. Amazing touch, strong on the ball, great vision etc etc, but, I don't think I've seen a more inconsistent player in 35 years at OT.

For Juventus he was outstanding playing in that left midfield role and when with France he looks great

All the ability is there - application , attitude etc all missing meaning it’s a rarity that it ever turns up. Maybe it’s just too much hard work in the Prem

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Just my opinion. I've watched him at his best, and his very worst. He can be a Rolls Royce of a player gliding across the pitch. Amazing touch, strong on the ball, great vision etc etc, but, I don't think I've seen a more inconsistent player in 35 years at OT.

The bold bit is reckoning it is 10 games a season. Are you counting Carabou Cup matches against league 1 teams in that .

I guess it is the inconsistencies that really annoy. You know there is a player in there, he just doesn't show it often enough.

 

[Swango1980]

?? Im calm , it’s just a debate and I don’t need to “convince” anyone ??

If you want to convince yourself and use other irrelevant players as some comparison then crack on ??


For Juventus he was outstanding playing in that left midfield role and when with France he looks great

All the ability is there - application , attitude etc all missing meaning it’s a rarity that it ever turns up. Maybe it’s just too much hard work in the Prem

I can imagine when you are defining the "biggest flop of all time", you only allow a short list of Man Utd players. All other players are irrelevant in such a short list, especially Liverpool players

 

[GB72]

Just being pedantic but surely the whole point of a debate is to convince people of your side of the argument and so, yes, to win a debate you do need to convince someone.

Producing comparitive players to counteract the mooted point is relevant in that a debate is the act of producing arguments and counter arguments.

Not having a go or staring anything, just a bit bored.

 

[Bdill93]

Just my opinion. I've watched him at his best, and his very worst. He can be a Rolls Royce of a player gliding across the pitch. Amazing touch, strong on the ball, great vision etc etc, but, I don't think I've seen a more inconsistent player in 35 years at OT.

Ill give him credit, during the World Cup 2018 he was absolute class. I remember watching him thinking if he played like that for united, they'd have one hell of a player in the midfield. But I cant say I've ever seen him do it in the prem. I don't watch all your games though!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I can imagine when you are defining the "biggest flop of all time", you only allow a short list of Man Utd players. All other players are irrelevant in such a short list, especially Liverpool players

?? nah there are a few other non Man Utd players

Schevchenko
Mangala
Torres ( to Chelsea )
Alves
Carroll

but none come close to Pogba

Lukaku may challenge that on his current path

 

[Bdill93]

?? nah there are a few other non Man Utd players

Schevchenko
Mangala
Torres ( to Chelsea )
Alves
Carroll

but none come close to Pogba

Lukaku may challenge that on his current path

Sanchez to United has to be up there too! Ill never forget the ridiculous announcement video of him playing piano

Also.. When are we calling Grealish a flop? End of next season?

 

[Junior]

?? nah there are a few other non Man Utd players

Schevchenko
Mangala
Torres ( to Chelsea )
Alves
Carroll

but none come close to Pogba

Lukaku may challenge that on his current path

Benteke, Aquilani, Ballotelli combined come close ?

 

[Swango1980]

As a proud "telly clapper", I am disappointed the Man Utd v Brighton game is not on the TV tonight.

It was originally meant to be on BT Sport before it was postponed due to Covid. Apparently UEFA permitted clubs to rearrange fixtures on Champions League nights, so long as they were not broadcast. I wonder if BT Sport will get a bit of a refund, given that they paid quite a large fee for a specified number of Premier League games (I assume that is how it works)

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Benteke, Aquilani, Ballotelli combined come close ?

Benteke just the wrong player for the system - £32 mil wasted , would certainly be included if he lasted longer , same with Balotelli

Aquilani- that’s an injury flop , was never fit enough to play