The Footie Thread

[Deleted member 21784]

You see here's another pet hate of mine, minimum contact. Its a contact sport, impossible to play it without. We are now down a winding road giving fouls and cards for minimum contact, just caught him etc.

Just because there's minimum co tact it doesn't mean its a foul.

Also if it's not a foul doesn't mean it's a dive either .. can just be a coming together

 

[Liverbirdie]

Should they get all the decisions though! The game has gone soft for me, it’s a full on contact sport and the 50/50 tackle is almost lost as it’s interpreted as a foul, honest challenges are non-existent as any slight contact is deemed as a foul and gives a player a “green light” to go down to ensure the Ref sees it.

Thats where the burden of proof has to change though.

A ref should only be giving fouls if he sees a foul, whereas nowadays I think they give a foul if one player hits the floor, and think it must have been a foul and unless I was sure there was no contact I'm going to give one.

A singular ref cant do it though, the PGMOL, UEFA,FIFA,FA head of refs have to change as a whole.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

You see here's another pet hate of mine, minimum contact. Its a contact sport, impossible to play it without. We are now down a winding road giving fouls and cards for minimum contact, just caught him etc.

Just because there's minimum co tact it doesn't mean its a foul.

Exactly, been giving this quite a bit of thought lately and imo it’s now ingrained in the game, whether that’s due to financial rewards, the win at any cost, bad refereeing, the media or all the above I don’t know.

I do know it’s not the game I grew up with, players still wanting to win, putting in hard fast tackles, both given and taken, it’s quite depressing were the game is today.

Maybe we’re just old and those kids, teenagers and the under 30’s don’t see it the same way and just view us as old miserable sods out of touch with the modern game.

Thats where the burden of proof has to change though.

A ref should only be giving fouls if he sees a foul, whereas nowadays I think they give a foul if one player hits the floor, and think it must have been a foul and unless I was sure there was no contact I'm going to give one.

A singular ref cant do it though, the PGMOL, UEFA,FIFA,FA head of refs have to change as a whole.

Absolutely, but as above I don’t think it should be just down to Refs to try and sort it out.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Exactly, been giving this quite a bit of thought lately and imo it’s now ingrained in the game, whether that’s due to financial rewards, the win at any cost, bad refereeing, the media or all the above I don’t know.

I do know it’s not the game I grew up with, players still wanting to win, putting in hard fast tackles, both given and taken, it’s quite depressing were the game is today.

Maybe we’re just old and those kids, teenagers and the under 30’s don’t see it the same way and just view us as old miserable sods out of touch with the modern game.


Absolutely, but as above I don’t think it should be just down to Refs to try and sort it out.

Agreed, it needs to come from the administrators, clubs, media, fans rule makers, refs and more, but mainly refs and the "various FA's".

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Agreed, it needs to come from the administrators, clubs, media, fans rule makers, refs and more, but mainly refs and the "various FA's".

With what help is another bug bear of mine, using the last Derby as an example and only mentioning 2 incidents, not the only or most obvious ones, but 2 similar.

Keans goal and the shirt pulling before he scored, Richarliason having his shirt pulled when he hit the post, both incidents clearly seen on TV, neither picked up by Officials or VAR, is that because they‘ve genuinely not seen them or seen and ignored or because TV has camera angles not available to VAR, whatever the reason it needs sorting, is it the drastic messures, so many appeals per team per half or the old, human error accept it as part of the game.

Whatever it is it needs addressing.

Edit: Other discussion points/incidents are available from the Derby, but prefer to ignore them.

 

[Liverbirdie]

With what help is another bug bear of mine, using the last Derby as an example and only mentioning 2 incidents, not the only or most obvious ones, but 2 similar.

Keans goal and the shirt pulling before he scored, Richarliason having his shirt pulled when he hit the post, both incidents clearly seen on TV, neither picked up by Officials or VAR, is that because they‘ve genuinely not seen them or seen and ignored or because TV has camera angles not available to VAR, whatever the reason it needs sorting, is it the drastic messures, so many appeals per team per half or the old, human error accept it as part of the game.

Whatever it is it needs addressing.

Edit: Other discussion points/incidents are available from the Derby, but prefer to ignore them.

Correct on the shirt pulls, maybe they should have to wear boxing gloves, that'd sort it!!

Imagine how many handballs we'd have then though.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

With what help is another bug bear of mine, using the last Derby as an example and only mentioning 2 incidents, not the only or most obvious ones, but 2 similar.

Keans goal and the shirt pulling before he scored, Richarliason having his shirt pulled when he hit the post, both incidents clearly seen on TV, neither picked up by Officials or VAR, is that because they‘ve genuinely not seen them or seen and ignored or because TV has camera angles not available to VAR, whatever the reason it needs sorting, is it the drastic messures, so many appeals per team per half or the old, human error accept it as part of the game.

Whatever it is it needs addressing.

Edit: Other discussion points/incidents are available from the Derby, but prefer to ignore them.

Going back to "by the letter of the law", there'd be 15 pens per game if shirt pulling was penalised.

 

[clubchamp98]

With what help is another bug bear of mine, using the last Derby as an example and only mentioning 2 incidents, not the only or most obvious ones, but 2 similar.

Keans goal and the shirt pulling before he scored, Richarliason having his shirt pulled when he hit the post, both incidents clearly seen on TV, neither picked up by Officials or VAR, is that because they‘ve genuinely not seen them or seen and ignored or because TV has camera angles not available to VAR, whatever the reason it needs sorting, is it the drastic messures, so many appeals per team per half or the old, human error accept it as part of the game.

Whatever it is it needs addressing.

Edit: Other discussion points/incidents are available from the Derby, but prefer to ignore them.

Was it two or three seasons ago when refs were told to give pens for shirt pulling .
They gave a few for a couple of weeks then stopped.
I belive they ignore them.
Nobody is convincing me that VAR can’t see shirt pulling.
It carries on because refs don’t give it if they did and carried on giving them it would stop .

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Going back to "by the letter of the law", there'd be 15 pens per game if shirt pulling was penalised.

And........Maybe it would be chaos initially until players stopped doing it.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Was it two or three seasons ago when refs were told to give pens for shirt pulling .
They gave a few for a couple of weeks then stopped.
I belive they ignore them.
Nobody is convincing me that VAR can’t see shirt pulling.
It carries on because refs don’t give it if they did and carried on giving them it would stop .

Again though, it has been stated that Sky/TV at some games have more cameras and angles available to them than the VAR Official.

Some of the shirt pulling is sly and hidden, add the fact the game is so quick at times you’d need to stop the game every few minutes while the VAR Official goes back and checks if they’ve missed anything.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Was it two or three seasons ago when refs were told to give pens for shirt pulling .
They gave a few for a couple of weeks then stopped.
I belive they ignore them.
Nobody is convincing me that VAR can’t see shirt pulling.
It carries on because refs don’t give it if they did and carried on giving them it would stop .

Last world cup they enforced this at corners. First couple of rounds of games the penalties were flying around. After that the holding and shirt pulling stopped. Hugely disappointed the PL didn't continue with it.

Ignoring things like this doesn't help the cause of refs or VAR.

 

[Old Skier]

More officials we have the worse it gets. Cheating players with officials now accepting it because pulling and pushing, shirt pulling, “professional fouls” (where did that come from) and now standing on the ball and not withdrawing from a free kick. Games gone mad, back to three officials controlling the game and get rid of VAR, how much money is that costing.

Old fashioned, yes, but once upon a time it worked.

 

[clubchamp98]

Again though, it has been stated that Sky/TV at some games have more cameras and angles available to them than the VAR Official.

Some of the shirt pulling is sly and hidden, add the fact the game is so quick at times you’d need to stop the game every few minutes while the VAR Official goes back and checks if they’ve missed anything.

If you go in the changing rooms ant tell every team you are going to give pens for shirt pulling .
They won’t have to give many to stop it.
The players will adapt.
As for the VAR cameras if they don’t see it fair enough ,but they don’t give blatant ones now.
So the culture of the refs must change with the players.

 

[Liverbirdie]

More officials we have the worse it gets. Cheating players with officials now accepting it because pulling and pushing, shirt pulling, “professional fouls” (where did that come from) and now standing on the ball and not withdrawing from a free kick. Games gone mad, back to three officials controlling the game and get rid of VAR, how much money is that costing.

Old fashioned, yes, but once upon a time it worked.

Again, they ballsed up the "must retreat" thing as they said you MUST book them also, so refs didnt always do it. You also had to move it the 10 yards forward, and not a preferential amount, as ometime syou got too close to the goal for free kicks, with most takers probably wanting an ideal or 23-25 yards, rather than 18-20.

They should make it the following:-

A booking is an option, especially if one a dangerous break, or if persistently done by a player, or the whole team.
The fouled team can advance it by anything between 0-10 yards, but less if they want, or if they want to take a quick free kick.

Covers all options.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

If you go in the changing rooms ant tell every team you are going to give pens for shirt pulling .
They won’t have to give many to stop it.
The players will adapt.
As for the VAR cameras if they don’t see it fair enough ,but they don’t give blatant ones now.
So the culture of the refs must change with the players.

Prior to every season for the last few years every PL Club is visited by the PGMOL and rule changes or adaptians as well as problems from the previous season are discussed, the idea being Clubs and everyone involved know exactly were they stand.

Managers are also invited to attend Referee sessions during the season, obviously this isn’t enough going by what happens, but surely if the Clubs directed the players to stop doing it you wouldn’t need the Refs to visit changing rooms and from that if one is penalised for doing it they’d face the wrath of the manager far more than worrying about a Yellow card.

 

[clubchamp98]

Prior to every season for the last few years every PL Club is visited by the PGMOL and rule changes or adaptians as well as problems from the previous season are discussed, the idea being Clubs and everyone involved know exactly were they stand.

Managers are also invited to attend Referee sessions during the season, obviously this isn’t enough going by what happens, but surely if the Clubs directed the players to stop doing it you wouldn’t need the Refs to visit changing rooms and from that if one is penalised for doing it they’d face the wrath of the manager far more than worrying about a Yellow card.

Yes but as our previous discussion the refs don’t enforce the rules.
Players will always push the boundaries if they get away with it.
But almost all the rule interpretations only last a few weeks then it’s back to normal.

The one that always annoys me is in the first 10 minutes you can kick lumps out of the opponent’s with very little chance of a booking but after that time it’s a yellow.
So you can be booked for an identical challenge that someone else didn’t get booked for.
If it’s a yellow it shouldn’t matter what minute in the game it is.
Players need to warm up in the game ,but some are very naughty but get away with it.
It’s all just very inconsistent.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Yes but as our previous discussion the refs don’t enforce the rules.
Players will always push the boundaries if they get away with it.
But almost all the rule interpretations only last a few weeks then it’s back to normal.

The one that always annoys me is in the first 10 minutes you can kick lumps out of the opponent’s with very little chance of a booking but after that time it’s a yellow.
So you can be booked for an identical challenge that someone else didn’t get booked for.
If it’s a yellow it shouldn’t matter what minute in the game it is.
Players need to warm up in the game ,but some are very naughty but get away with it.
It’s all just very inconsistent.

As much as I’m trying to put both sides across, I agree our Referees are of sub-standard and we need to see a drastic improvement, however, even in the example you give that annoys you, You want the Ref to go in hard from minute one while at the same time excusing the players behaviour as “very naughty” these are professionals at the top of the game not children, they should not behaving that way either.

 

[clubchamp98]

As much as I’m trying to put both sides across, I agree our Referees are of sub-standard and we need to see a drastic improvement, however, even in the example you give that annoys you, You want the Ref to go in hard from minute one while at the same time excusing the players behaviour as “very naughty” these are professionals at the top of the game not children, they should not behaving that way either.

I am sorry but you keep saying I am excusing the players .!!!
You are wrong I am not excusing them at all there are bad tackles that should be yellow that are excused by the ref not me.
Have you ever played football , if so you would know what “very naughty “means.
Players are cheats , liars and some just plain nasty.
But sub standard refs let them get away with things that they shouldn’t.

Can you show me where I am excusing the players!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I am sorry but you keep saying I am excusing the players .!!!
You are wrong I am not excusing them at all there are bad tackles that should be yellow that are excused by the ref not me.
Have you ever played football , if so you would know what “very naughty “means.
Players are cheats , liars and some just plain nasty.
But sub standard refs let them get away with things that they shouldn’t.

Can you show me where I am excusing the players!

You’re excuseing the players by having the first step to them changing their behaviour being the responsibility of the Referee.

I quote “there are bad tackles that should be yellow that are excused by the ref not me” If the player didn’t make the bad tackle he wouldn’t need excuseing by anyone!

Start with the source of the problem and make the job of the Referee less problematic, just like the shirt pulls, if the players didn’t do it the Referee doesn’t need to look for it.

 

[clubchamp98]

You’re excuseing the players by having the first step to them changing their behaviour being the responsibility of the Referee.

I quote “there are bad tackles that should be yellow that are excused by the ref not me” If the player didn’t make the bad tackle he wouldn’t need excuseing by anyone!

Start with the source of the problem and make the job of the Referee less problematic, just like the shirt pulls, if the players didn’t do it the Referee doesn’t need to look for it.

Sorry the refs in charge not the players .
they will always try and get away with what he lets them.
That’s my stance ,you don’t agree that’s your opinion.

If you really think players are going to stop making bad tackles your living in cloud cuckoo land be it intentional or accidental it will always happen.
If a player dosnt make a tackle his manager will want to know why he didn’t.
But one thing is constant ,the ref is in charge. Allegedly!