The Footie Thread

[Deleted member 21784]

Why bring in a 5th official? What is it that the 4th does that means they can do nothing else? Use them, they are just ornaments otherwise.

I suspect Stockley Park is used as they have access to multiple screens. The pitch side official can only view 1 screen so you would still need someone somewhere who can view 5 screens at once to pick up issues.

4th official manages the touch line, does the board for the subs, I don't think they could monitor the incidents if they weren't watching it entirely

Plus they are back up ref if injury happens

 

[Lord Tyrion]

4th official manages the touch line, does the board for the subs, I don't think they could monitor the incidents if they weren't watching it entirely

Plus they are back up ref if injury happens

The touch line can manage itself, it does not need a PL level official for that. They managed for years without the need, they can manage again. Coaches, assistants etc are currently doing the boards for the subs but again, it doesn't need a PL level official to do that. Have a fast track of up and coming refs to do this job. There will always be some who do not have games on a particular day, work it into their schedule. Div 1 or 2 game to ref one day, next day do the 4th official job. The old 4th official looks at the monitiors.

Saying all that, the above sounds hugely inefficient, needing too many screens and tech at each ground. Having at one location makes more sense. They just need to get the refs on the pitch to come to the side more.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

The touch line can manage itself, it does not need a PL level official for that. They managed for years without the need, they can manage again. Coaches, assistants etc are currently doing the boards for the subs but again, it doesn't need a PL level official to do that. Have a fast track of up and coming refs to do this job. There will always be some who do not have games on a particular day, work it into their schedule. Div 1 or 2 game to ref one day, next day do the 4th official job. The old 4th official looks at the monitiors.

Saying all that, the above sounds hugely inefficient, needing too many screens and tech at each ground. Having at one location makes more sense. They just need to get the refs on the pitch to come to the side more.

They are this year

If nothing missed or they agree with the ref they let it go if not pitch side screen to check and ref can make the final call. Either nothing or change decision

 

[Deleted member 21784]

The touch line can manage itself, it does not need a PL level official for that. They managed for years without the need, they can manage again. Coaches, assistants etc are currently doing the boards for the subs but again, it doesn't need a PL level official to do that. Have a fast track of up and coming refs to do this job. There will always be some who do not have games on a particular day, work it into their schedule. Div 1 or 2 game to ref one day, next day do the 4th official job. The old 4th official looks at the monitiors.

Saying all that, the above sounds hugely inefficient, needing too many screens and tech at each ground. Having at one location makes more sense. They just need to get the refs on the pitch to come to the side more.

https://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/g...ts the,officials, especially during the match.

The 4th official is more important than you think

 

[Lord Tyrion]

https://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/global/files/referees/fourth-official-guidance.ashx#:~:text=The Fourth Official assists the,officials, especially during the match.

The 4th official is more important than you think

I do not see that list as making them important in all honesty. Those jobs are admin or procedural. You certainly don't need to waste a top level official on them.

Barkley to Villa on loan for the season. Good move for Villa, good move for Barkley. One that makes sense for all.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I do not see that list as making them important in all honesty. Those jobs are admin or procedural. You certainly don't need to waste a top level official on them.

Barkley to Villa on loan for the season. Good move for Villa, good move for Barkley. One that makes sense for all.

Don't see it as important except maybe the first bit that clearly says.. able to step in for any of the officials at any time? That's why you get refs as 4th officials for if the ref or assistant gets an injury and they swap with the 4th official .

 

[3-off-the-tee]

Barkley has just signed for Aston Villa on a season long loan. Really good signing for Villa.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Don't see it as important except maybe the first bit that clearly says.. able to step in for any of the officials at any time? That's why you get refs as 4th officials for if the ref or assistant gets an injury and they swap with the 4th official .

It would be simple enough for an assistant to take over as ref, a ref on the way up to run the line. It is such a rare occurence and assistants are all professionals as well so it would not be an issue. We must both be bored at work if we are debating this

 

[Deleted member 21784]

It would be simple enough for an assistant to take over as ref, a ref on the way up to run the line. It is such a rare occurence and assistants are all professionals as well so it would not be an issue. We must both be bored at work if we are debating this

I'm not working lol I'm pinned in by the twins

The assistants aren't the same level as the ref they are up and coming so they are not able to take over from the ref

However the 4th official can take over from any of them

 

[clubchamp98]

I think whoever said it earlier in this thread was right that they're not going to drastically change the law mid-way through a season unfortunately, even if it completely unfit for purpose. Hopefully enough of a noise has been made to revise it for next season, and write this season off pretty much. It's a weird, condensed season anyway.

Personally I think the only way they can save face with VAR is to scrap the Stockley Park bods and just keep the pitchside monitor. Change the laws back to what they were. Ref and linesman go back to reffing the game (since they're currently not, they're just spokesmen as it stands). Any decision they didn't get a clear view on, ref can go watch it again on the screen. But not in super slow-motion, normal speed for handballs so it doesn't look as if they had their hand in the air for an age. Nobody drawing stupid lines on it for offsides, just pause when the ball is played and the ref can use his eyes to see if he's offside or level. A lot of people are saying that those who wanted VAR are responsible for the mess it is, but I don't accept that at all, since what I've just described is what I was hoping for all along.

They said on Motd Sunday that the handball rule had not been changed!
It has just been brought in line with the European definition.
So it’s still up to the ref what he sees.
But the guidelines of what is or isn’t has changed.
Bit like the Covid advice very conflicting.

For the Lino one I just can’t see the logic, keeping the flag down for a tight decision fair enough.
But when someone is 5 yds offside and the defender plays the ball not knowing he’s offside then they get a corner because the striker didn’t try and play the ball , he’s interfering with the defenders decision making .
Or someone’s clearly offside but is allowed to play on and him or the keeper gets hurt that’s avoidable.

 

[Orikoru]

They said on Motd Sunday that the handball rule had not been changed!
It has just been brought in line with the European definition.
So it’s still up to the ref what he sees.
But the guidelines of what is or isn’t has changed.
Bit like the Covid advice very conflicting.

For the Lino one I just can’t see the logic, keeping the flag down for a tight decision fair enough.
But when someone is 5 yds offside and the defender plays the ball not knowing he’s offside then they get a corner because the striker didn’t try and play the ball , he’s interfering with the defenders decision making .
Or someone’s clearly offside but is allowed to play on and him or the keeper gets hurt that’s avoidable.

Of course it's changed. The ref used to decide if they had intended to handle it or not. Now they give it if the hand was deemed to be away from his body, whether they intended to handle it or not. Ignoring the fact that you cannot jump or even balance yourself with your hands pinned to your sides. That's the problem.

 

[clubchamp98]

Of course it's changed. The ref used to decide if they had intended to handle it or not. Now they give it if the hand was deemed to be away from his body, whether they intended to handle it or not. Ignoring the fact that you cannot jump or even balance yourself with your hands pinned to your sides. That's the problem.

They said the rule has NOT been changed just the way it’s viewed to bring all leagues on a par.
I remember defenders with arms behind their back when John Terry was still playing is it a Jose thing.?

 

[Orikoru]

They said the rule has NOT been changed just the way it’s viewed to bring all leagues on a par.
I remember defenders with arms behind their back when John Terry was still playing is it a Jose thing.?

That just means the refs are getting it wrong then. I thought they added a whole piece about arms being in 'unnatural positions' because they bang on about that all the time and it never used to be a thing 4 or 5 years ago.

 

[clubchamp98]

That just means the refs are getting it wrong then. I thought they added a whole piece about arms being in 'unnatural positions' because they bang on about that all the time and it never used to be a thing 4 or 5 years ago.

Possibly I remember the “natural silhouette “
Whatever that means to a footballer.
I do remember a ref giving a pen at Anfield against Milner in the CL his arms were by his side .
We were baffled but the pundits said “ that’s the rule in Europe”

 

[Deleted member 16999]

They said on Motd Sunday that the handball rule had not been changed!
It has just been brought in line with the European definition.
So it’s still up to the ref what he sees.
But the guidelines of what is or isn’t has changed.
Bit like the Covid advice very conflicting.

For the Lino one I just can’t see the logic, keeping the flag down for a tight decision fair enough.
But when someone is 5 yds offside and the defender plays the ball not knowing he’s offside then they get a corner because the striker didn’t try and play the ball , he’s interfering with the defenders decision making .
Or someone’s clearly offside but is allowed to play on and him or the keeper gets hurt that’s avoidable.

We all have the same rules and they are agreed by the IFAB, that’s why we got an agreement on Tuesday but can’t change any rules until the end of the season and it has to be agreed by all.

“At a Premier League meeting on Tuesday it was agreed that referees will be allowed to apply greater subjectivity within the existing rules, after a conversation with the International Football Association Board (IFAB).”

The bit in bold is the “change” as such.

 

[Piece]

Id like to see a 5th official added to watch the game and point the ref to the monitor if needed rather than stockley park

Also no lines.. bring in day light . Should have been that for years

Daylight rule for offsides will be even worse. What's the size of daylight, where does it apply, etc.? Bringing in subjective judgement to a black and white rule isn't right. Having said all that, the "toe-nail" offside decisions are just silly. It could be another VAR monitor situation where Stockley say to the on pitch ref, this offside is very tight, use your judgement to decide?

 

[Piece]

They said the rule has NOT been changed just the way it’s viewed to bring all leagues on a par.
I remember defenders with arms behind their back when John Terry was still playing is it a Jose thing.?

In the same way that the high foot "rule" was aligned. In the Premier League years ago you could raise your foot a bit and tackle, but in Europe it was seen as an instant free-kick.

 

[Orikoru]

Daylight rule for offsides will be even worse. What's the size of daylight, where does it apply, etc.? Bringing in subjective judgement to a black and white rule isn't right. Having said all that, the "toe-nail" offside decisions are just silly. It could be another VAR monitor situation where Stockley say to the on pitch ref, this offside is very tight, use your judgement to decide?

This is why I say just let the ref watch on screen and judge it by sight. If players are running side by side then the forward is level, he shouldn't be given offside because they put a sliderule across it and his stride pattern puts his toe ahead of the defender's knee or whatever. That's just stupid. Forwards should be able to know that they are level and therefore onside, not think "I'm level so there's a 50% chance I'm offside depending on when they pause the video".

 

[HomerJSimpson]

One for the Everton fans really. We've signed Lookman from RB Leipzig but know he played at Goodison and went to Germany for a decent price. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54349929

Is he any good?

Personally I think we've enough attacking options and need more defensive cover as the Villa game showed

 

[Lord Tyrion]

One for the Everton fans really. We've signed Lookman from RB Leipzig but know he played at Goodison and went to Germany for a decent price. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54349929

Is he any good?

Personally I think we've enough attacking options and need more defensive cover as the Villa game showed

He showed promise but was inconsistent. He couldn't break through and so went out on loan. Leipzig loved him, really went hard after him and so he went. I think Everton would have liked to have kept him and eased him in but the offer was good, he wanted to play games.

I'm sorry for him it has gone wrong so quickly at Leipzig.

He will run at defenders, he is tricky on the ball, he will give you energy. Not an end product enough times. Only young though so that side can improve.