The Footie Thread

[Swango1980]

One referee, one person to own responsibility. Two officials on the line, checking for offside

Like the good old days

I wouldn't mind VAR checking for offside if decisions could be made instantly. Even with semi automated offside, they still take several minutes to check sometimes. Awful

 

[Hobbit]

Not for me, that’d be a backward step, surely an official with the ability to take 2 or 10 looks retrospectively is better than relying on the extra Official getting 1 look.

The problem isn’t seeing these offences it’s the implementation of VAR and how they interpret the issue.

Huge gap in consistencey.

But if that look is from 50 yards away?

I don’t think VAR is a failed concept, it’s a failed implementation & use.

 

[PaulMdj]

But if that look is from 50 yards away?

I don’t think VAR is a failed concept, it’s a failed implementation & use.

100%, putting more officials around the pitch doesn’t work, didn’t UEFA try it a few years back in the Europa or Conference League

 

[Swango1980]

The ambiguity needs to be taken out of it. A shirt pull is a foul, a kick is a foul etc. Each game is worth millions. Southampton earned £109m for coming bottom. Liverpool got £174m. Those numbers include fees paid for televised matches and a share of the revenue generated by international matches. A team can lose millions because of poor referring decisions.

If a team gets relegated, they can blame poor refereeing. But, to be down that end of the table, they need to realise they mainly got relegated because they were rubbish.

Mistakes are part of the game. Referees, players and managers all make them. And most incidents a referee has to call on are subjective. Almost impossible to set black and white criteria on decision making, to the point there will never be any more complaints.

VAR had proved this. Making a bad decision in the heat of the moment, or not seeing it clearly, are no longer excuses. The laws of the game are continually rewritten to try and ensure we get perfect decisions all the time. Yet it gets worse, or at least that is the perception.

Impossible to remove ambiguity. If fans and media recognised this, they could be a little less hysterical when a poor decision, in their view, is made

 

[Tashyboy]

Just seen a stat re Bruno Fernandes and his injury record at Utd. He has previously only missed 2 games throughout his Utd career through injury. That is astonishing in this day and age.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Obviously being an Everton fan I’d of liked us to of been given the penalty, however, this is the reason from the PL why it wasn’t given:
“it deemed the contact from Saliba on Barry wasn’t sufficient for a penalty."

So he was kicked, but now the VAR are deciding on how much force there is/was, nothing to do with clear and obvious.

It’s like the shirt pulling, a little bit is OK, then a grey area, then a foul, just ridiculous.

I don’t have a dog in the fight so I’m watching as a neutral but I agree with the decision, facing away from goal both going for the ball that isn’t sufficient contact or reason for a penalty even if it was against the mighty Reading and we were awarded a penalty for it I’d be thinking we’ve been lucky to get it.

Though I whole heartedly agree with all the grey area shenanigans but it’s something you will never solve as humans we all see things differently and sometimes with our own bias all can truly ask for is consistency and that’s what is sorely lacking across match officials especially now they’re scared to commit to a decision with VAR being to prevalent.

 

[PaulMdj]

I don’t have a dog in the fight so I’m watching as a neutral but I agree with the decision, facing away from goal both going for the ball that isn’t sufficient contact or reason for a penalty even if it was against the mighty Reading and we were awarded a penalty for it I’d be thinking we’ve been lucky to get it.

Though I whole heartedly agree with all the grey area shenanigans but it’s something you will never solve as humans we all see things differently and sometimes with our own bias all can truly ask for is consistency and that’s what is sorely lacking across match officials especially now they’re scared to commit to a decision with VAR being to prevalent.

As an Everton fan I can accept not getting given a penalty, but and here’s the issue for me, did the Ref see anything, if not then VAR should send him to the monitor, not decide themselves the kick wasn’t “hard” enough.

If the Ref saw it and waved it away then VAR should not get involved.

I know 99% of players cheat at times, but the Ref then allowed the physio on, so the contact was enough to need treatment.

All very confusing.

Don’t agree with your comment on which direction the players were facing, that’s irrelevant, the coming together was in the box and both are trying to win the ball.

 

[Don Barzini]

I don’t think VAR is a failed concept, it’s a failed implementation & use.

This.

Mic up the referee so we can hear what he says to players and what they say back to him. Also what he and VAR are saying to each other. Full transparency. Same as rugby, where it works perfectly.

Overhaul the decision making process. Stop this mindset of “Can we look really hard and find a tiny and stupid reason to disallow this goal”. Change it to “Let’s have a quick look on the replay and if it isn’t a clear and obvious error, go with what looks right after looking at it a couple of times”.

Also give the power for an onfield ref to just watch a quick TV replay for any decision he wants to. Stop this stupid “We can’t change the onfield decision unless it’s clear and obvious”. Let him have the power to pause and check it himself quickly.

 

[ger147]

Are the EPL introducing post-game scrutineering of players? Would hate for big Erling's skid plank to be worn and him getting DQ'd...

Man City to weigh players before Forest game - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cm20dd4md8qo

 

[Tashyboy]

Are the EPL introducing post-game scrutineering of players? Would hate for big Erling's skid plank to be worn and him getting DQ'd...

Man City to weigh players before Forest game - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cm20dd4md8qo

Good job they are not weighing the fans before and after Christmas

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I was very much against VAR being introduced into football as I thought wouldn’t work , and would be hard to implement

Goal line technology was good

But the rest has been a car crash

It’s help exposed at times how poor some refs are and each tweak they make just compounds how poor it is

It’s not going to go now so need to find ways to improve it

For me

1. The communication with the var needs to heard as they are discussing the event

2. Clear and obvious needs sorting - put a time limit on checking incidents

3. The ref to take more control - allow him to quickly stop the game and show an incident on the big screen so he can check


The biggest issues

1. The incompetence of PGMOL headed by the useless Webb

2. Poor refs - some refs are really poor

3. Lack of consistency

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

As an Everton fan I can accept not getting given a penalty, but and here’s the issue for me, did the Ref see anything, if not then VAR should send him to the monitor, not decide themselves the kick wasn’t “hard” enough.

If the Ref saw it and waved it away then VAR should not get involved.

I know 99% of players cheat at times, but the Ref then allowed the physio on, so the contact was enough to need treatment.

All very confusing.

Don’t agree with your comment on which direction the players were facing, that’s irrelevant, the coming together was in the box and both are trying to win the ball.

And there in lies the grey area that will never change. As fans and as a non bias one at that we can’t agree on part of the decision, so why do we as fans expect any different from match officials in how they see things regardless of laws as they’re laid out.

The only way to remove grey areas or subjective argument is either everything that is context is a foul or nothing is ! But then that makes the game even less of a contact sport than it is now and really dilutes the game further. No one will ever agree on any decision, there will always be bias, subjective argument or downright ignorance amongst fans the world over. Sadly it’ll never be fixed because you can’t change how people see things differently so round and round we all go

 

[Slime]

The, supposed, two best refs in the Prem are 40yrs old and 47yrs old respectively, trying to keep up with superfit 20-35yr olds. Why does it take so long to be considered good enough to be a Prem ref? I think the youngest is in his late 20’s, but considered inexperienced. The rules aren’t complicated, so why can’t there be a hatful of refs in the mid to late 20’s?

Even if a ref was in his, or her, mid 20’s getting from one failed attack to the other penalty area in the time it takes a long ball to make the journey is impossible.

Drop VAR, keep goal line technology, 2 refs & 4 assistant refs.

The handball and offside rules aren't complicated?
Who knew?

 

[PaulMdj]

And there in lies the grey area that will never change. As fans and as a non bias one at that we can’t agree on part of the decision, so why do we as fans expect any different from match officials in how they see things regardless of laws as they’re laid out.

The only way to remove grey areas or subjective argument is either everything that is context is a foul or nothing is ! But then that makes the game even less of a contact sport than it is now and really dilutes the game further. No one will ever agree on any decision, there will always be bias, subjective argument or downright ignorance amongst fans the world over. Sadly it’ll never be fixed because you can’t change how people see things differently so round and round we all go

Surely kicking an opponent isn’t subjective though, he either kicked him or he missed him, its the was the contact sufficient discussion that confuses it.

These Officials are the best in the Country and are paid to make these decisions, I’ve no doubt they aren’t stupid enough to be fooled all the time and I’m sure they know when a genuine tackle is put in.

The only part everyone does agree on is that VAR has not helped anyone, it probably gets 95%+ decisions correct but the ones they get wrong deflects from that.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Surely kicking an opponent isn’t subjective though, he either kicked him or he missed him, its the was the contact sufficient discussion that confuses it.

These Officials are the best in the Country and are paid to make these decisions, I’ve no doubt they aren’t stupid enough to be fooled all the time and I’m sure they know when a genuine tackle is put in.

The only part everyone does agree on is that VAR has not helped anyone, it probably gets 95%+ decisions correct but the ones they get wrong deflects from that.

Of course it is you have to look at the context facing away both going do the same ball absolutely zero intent to foul or kick the player one just made contact a fraction of a second quicker than the other. This is my whole point we see it differently how can you expect the refs to be any different hence why I feel that they belief contact wasn’t sufficient.

As for physio was needed that’s again a pinch of salt with players these days in many instances like this. Look at Saka went down like he’d been shot looking for a foul against Grealish near the corner flag and again zero foul, zero intent just a player milking it.

We won’t ever agree in this one so best to accept that and each of us move forward. Though 100% with you on the VAR point

 

[PaulMdj]

Of course it is you have to look at the context facing away both going do the same ball absolutely zero intent to foul or kick the player one just made contact a fraction of a second quicker than the other. This is my whole point we see it differently how can you expect the refs to be any different hence why I feel that they belief contact wasn’t sufficient.

As for physio was needed that’s again a pinch of salt with players these days in many instances like this. Look at Saka went down like he’d been shot looking for a foul against Grealish near the corner flag and again zero foul, zero intent just a player milking it.

We won’t ever agree in this one so best to accept that and each of us move forward. Though 100% with you on the VAR point

I get what you’re saying, but look at when a player is through on goal and a keeper goes down, if the keeper misses the ball and the player goes over him or into him, even if the player has knocked it so far past he’d never reach it, a penalty is given.

The keeper in 99% of cases has no intent to give away a penalty, but a penalty it is.

The force of the contact is irrelevant, being late is just that, late, again doesn’t come in to it.

Have a good day mate.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

I get what you’re saying, but look at when a player is through on goal and a keeper goes down, if the keeper misses the ball and the player goes over him or into him, even if the player has knocked it so far past he’d never reach it, a penalty is given.

The keeper in 99% of cases has no intent to give away a penalty, but a penalty it is.

The force of the contact is irrelevant, being late is just that, late, again doesn’t come in to it.

Have a good day mate.

Little bit different in how that denies a goal scoring opportunity so I don’t see that as remotely similar to yesterday where there was zero goal scoring opportunity on edge of the box facing away from goal.

You to mate

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Here is a simple question

The Isak goal and the tackle after

Should there be punishment for that tackle which was an attempt to stop the goal but got the player late

 

[irip]

Here is a simple question

The Isak goal and the tackle after

Should there be punishment for that tackle which was an attempt to stop the goal but got the player late

Not in my opinion no.
It was an honest attempt to win the ball.
It wasn’t 2 footed and there was no malice or unnecessary force in the tackle.
I think it was just unlucky for Isak.
Not every foul needs to be a booking

 

[PaulMdj]

Here is a simple question

The Isak goal and the tackle after

Should there be punishment for that tackle which was an attempt to stop the goal but got the player late

You need to watch it again, Van de Ven was already trying to block the shot before Isak hit it, unfortunate coming together, no more, no less.

Tottenham Hotspur vs Liverpool | Alexander Isak puts Reds ahead but at a cost!

Alexander Isak scores for Liverpool but injures himself in the process against Spurs.

www.skysports.com

Edit: Just noticed the headline with that link Not sure Isak injured himself!