The Footie Thread

[Lord Tyrion]

His left arm gets caught around him, and then Dan Burn gets him in a headlock, which makes it a little bit more difficult to be watching the ball to be fair.

At no point is he ever looking at the ball. If he was 50-50 then it would not have been given. You have to at least make an effort.

Personally, I think this has gone backwards this season. The 6yd box and beyond has become a maul and refs have allowed it to happen. They could easily stop it but they haven't and teams have taken it to the extreme.

 

[Orikoru]

At no point is he ever looking at the ball. If he was 50-50 then it would not have been given. You have to at least make an effort.

Personally, I think this has gone backwards this season. The 6yd box and beyond has become a maul and refs have allowed it to happen. They could easily stop it but they haven't and teams have taken it to the extreme.

When you're man-marking somebody you don't just stare at the ball, you have to pay more attention to the man and just have an awareness of when the ball is coming in. I think they have an arm round each other, then as Burn moves he takes Bentancur in a headlock and flattens him. As soon as Burn's arm goes around his neck it is impossible for him to then look at the ball. At best it's 50-50, at worse it's 60-40 a foul by Burn. Giving a penalty is wild.

 

[Tashyboy]

No one is denying that Tash, the problem is is that we see players wrestling each other in exactly the same way in every game and it’s ignored.
As Phil says it’s the inconsistencey that’s the issue.
I’ll guarantee there’ll be penalties not awarded and this penalty will be dragged up to ask why!

Couldn’t agree more. If it was given week after week. Defenders wouldn’t do it. And that’s why they do. Inconsistency. They have a chance of getting away with it.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

When you're man-marking somebody you don't just stare at the ball, you have to pay more attention to the man and just have an awareness of when the ball is coming in. I think they have an arm round each other, then as Burn moves he takes Bentancur in a headlock and flattens him. As soon as Burn's arm goes around his neck it is impossible for him to then look at the ball. At best it's 50-50, at worse it's 60-40 a foul by Burn. Giving a penalty is wild.

If you are paying 100% attention to the man, you are open to giving a foul. I've done man to man marking, you watch the ball and the man at the same time. Even if you went 60-40 to the man, you still have to be aware of the ball otherwise, what are you doing other than physcially just stopping the player? The ball has to be part of the equation. The ball was never part of it for Bentancur, that's why it was given.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Bentancur at no stage was looking at the ball, or even towards the corner where it was taken from. He kept his eyes on Burn and then rugby tackled him. He didn't even pretend to be watching the ball. How can you defend when you are not following the ball?

That sounds like standard defending at every single corner - and the incident we see happens at every corner

 

[Swango1980]

Bentancur at no stage was looking at the ball, or even towards the corner where it was taken from. He kept his eyes on Burn and then rugby tackled him. He didn't even pretend to be watching the ball. How can you defend when you are not following the ball?

The problem is, defender looks at the ball and loses sight of the man he is marking, he will get accused of ball watching.

He didn't rugby tackle him, that is an over exaggeration. if that is a rugby tackly, then rugby must be a much softer game than I thought it was

 

[Lord Tyrion]

That sounds like standard defending at every single corner - and the incident we see happens at every corner

Then be consistent and give the penalty. That it happens all of the time is not a reason not to give it.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The problem is, defender looks at the ball and loses sight of the man he is marking, he will get accused of ball watching.

He didn't rugby tackle him, that is an over exaggeration. if that is a rugby tackly, then rugby must be a much softer game than I thought it was

If he is a PL level defender he should be capable of managing both, it's basic stuff.

He clearly didn't throw himself at Burn, but he did wrap his arms around his waist with the full intent of stopping him. The ball was irrelevant to him. The ball is not irrelevant in football

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Then be consistent and give the penalty. That it happens all of the time is not a reason not to give it.

That’s the issue - it’s been happened for ten years plus now and they don’t give penalties , they allow it to happen

 

[Swango1980]

If he is a PL level defender he should be capable of managing both, it's basic stuff.

He clearly didn't throw himself at Burn, but he did wrap his arms around his waist with the full intent of stopping him. The ball was irrelevant to him. The ball is not irrelevant in football

But he WAS paying attention to both the ball and the player as best he could. He was aware of when the corner was about to be taken. Burn made his run, and he reacted to that run, as he should. If you look at the live action, rather than just the slow motion replay of the moment Burn went down, Burn was also all over Bentacur. Burns arms were in contact with Bentacur. And Burn was trying to accelerate with all his might directly into Bentacur. Burn was then clever, suddely threw his arms out wide, continued forcing his body into Bentacur and they both inevitably collapsed.

Bentacur didn't have both arms around Burn. His right arm was out wide. His left arm did go round Burns chest, under Burns arm. But you can also say Burns left arm was wrapped around the back of Bentacurs neck, and then his momentum just pushed Bentacur down into the ground.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

This sort of defending behaviour is fouling. Clear and simple.
No where in the rules does it say you can put your arms / hands on another player.
Stand near or next to him , ok. But we all know that is not enough for present day defenders. Arms are used, all the time.
It seems to me that conveniently referees have decided that either they didn’t see the incident or it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Now it is so prevalent at corners and free kicks, that they probably don’t know which incident to pick!!

 

[Swango1980]

This sort of defending behaviour is fouling. Clear and simple.
No where in the rules does it say you can put your arms / hands on another player.
Stand near or next to him , ok. But we all know that is not enough for present day defenders. Arms are used, all the time.
It seems to me that conveniently referees have decided that either they didn’t see the incident or it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Now it is so prevalent at corners and free kicks, that they probably don’t know which incident to pick!!

Nor do the rules say that if a players arms contact another player, it is a foul.

I appreciate we are moving closer and closer to football being a non contact sport, and views like this push us closer to that. But, for me, I think it makes the game appauling to watch. It is a physical game. I've no problem with players arms contacting other players, so long as it isn't a clear pull or drag to the ground (and I've explained why I don't think last night's incident was that). I like the fact that referees can use common sense, on the most part. The alterntiave it that most times corners or free kicks are hit into the box, the referee will either have to blow up for a penalty or a free kick to the defence / goalkeeper. So teams either awarded an easy opportunity to score, or an attack scrapped to award a very soft free kick to the defence. To me, there is no entertainment in that.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Nor do the rules say that if a players arms contact another player, it is a foul.

I appreciate we are moving closer and closer to football being a non contact sport, and views like this push us closer to that. But, for me, I think it makes the game appauling to watch. It is a physical game. I've no problem with players arms contacting other players, so long as it isn't a clear pull or drag to the ground (and I've explained why I don't think last night's incident was that). I like the fact that referees can use common sense, on the most part. The alterntiave it that most times corners or free kicks are hit into the box, the referee will either have to blow up for a penalty or a free kick to the defence / goalkeeper. So teams either awarded an easy opportunity to score, or an attack scrapped to award a very soft free kick to the defence. To me, there is no entertainment in that.

They do if they block him and stop him moving, surely.

You may find such present day behaviour entertaining, but I find it impossible now to watch a full premier league match on TV. What with fouling like this, passing tactics especially at the back, like they are, and cheating on the scale it is, the only way I watch now is record it and fast forward , pausing to watch the goals

I remember the 6os, 70s. football, you see.

 

[PaulMdj]

If he is a PL level defender he should be capable of managing both, it's basic stuff.

He clearly didn't throw himself at Burn, but he did wrap his arms around his waist with the full intent of stopping him. The ball was irrelevant to him. The ball is not irrelevant in football

As I previously posted it was a foul, but no more of a foul than every other wrestle they ignore, just after the penalty Richarliason had his shirt pulled in the Mags box, over reacts throwing himself to the floor, as he does, but the replay clearly shows his shirt is pulled and it was stated it wasn’t sufficient to make him go down.

Surely the force of the shirt pull is irrelevant, it’s either a foul or it isn’t.

Some Officials are almost making it up as they go along and changing their mind one incident to another.

 

[Crazyface]

They do if they block him and stop him moving, surely.

You may find such present day behaviour entertaining, but I find it impossible now to watch a full premier league match on TV. What with fouling like this, passing tactics especially at the back, like they are, and cheating on the scale it is, the only way I watch now is record it and fast forward , pausing to watch the goals

I remember the 6os, 70s. football, you see.

I find the best way to watch today's footie is on you tube. 3-4 minutes of highlights, no yackiry yak from idiot commentators. Job done.

 

[Bdill93]

I've just looked at the table. Villa are 4th . That's happened very quietly.

@Bdill93 how are you playing now?

Class mate, we get the job done despite Ollie Watkins awful form scoring atm.

Villa park has turned into a fortress which is just such a great thing, lost one game in 20+ there.

Good time to be a Villain still, we look likely for Europe for the 4th season in a row next season if the form continues.

 

[Swango1980]

They do if they block him and stop him moving, surely.

You may find such present day behaviour entertaining, but I find it impossible now to watch a full premier league match on TV. What with fouling like this, passing tactics especially at the back, like they are, and cheating on the scale it is, the only way I watch now is record it and fast forward , pausing to watch the goals

I remember the 6os, 70s. football, you see.

I've been personally watching football for over 30 years. In all that time, defenders have always defended rigourously at set pieces. Arms have made contact with attackers, they have sttod strong and not allowed attackers to barge into their space. The contact that goes on in the box is, to me, no different to what is was decades ago. In fact, decades ago, defenders where even more street wise, especially with less TV broadcast angles / coverage let alone VAR. They would graze their stud down the back of opponents achilles, they'd tug a shirt out of site from a ref, etc.

I didn't watch football in the in the 80's and before. But I've seen the footage. The horrific challenges defenders made. So let's not pretend that things didn't get physical in the box when defending a corner.

So, what makes it worse for me isn't the physical contact that defenders make. It is the over inflated coverage and the demand that free kicks are given for "offences" that would have been considered nothing but normal contact decades back. For both attacking AND defending teams. The fact that officials are more and more likely to stop play because a player has fallen over and/or VAR more likely to intevene. And that is what really promotes cheating. The more willing officials are in giving such free kicks, the more likely players will throw themselves to ground and claim they've been fouled. We call it cheating, quite rightly. But it is inevitable because it ultimately gives their team a tactical advantage, knowing officials will be pressured into giving free kicks, otherwise face backlash from the players, manager, fans and media.

And, Dan Burn wasn't blocked from going forward by the other guys arms. He was blocked by going forward as he tried to run through another human body. He'd have been blocked just as much had the defender had his arms stretched out.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Big game at the Amex tonight, villa will be going home hopefully with result of nil point.
SEAGULLS!!!!

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

Not very impressed with Brentford’s manager. Resting Collins, Damsgaard, Henderson and Thiago?

 

[Orikoru]

Not very impressed with Brentford’s manager. Resting Collins, Damsgaard, Henderson and Thiago?

Arteta has been trolling fantasy players too, he left Saka, Eze and Timber on the bench. They've all been subbed on now though.