The Footie Thread

[Orikoru]

Why do pundits and reporters keep referring to outdated positions such as 'Number 10' or 'Number 6' when describing the best position for certain players? Squad number have been in the PL for 30 years so most young fans won't have a clue what they are on about.

I think most people do understand, largely because those terms endure. Everyone knows a 'number 10' means your central attacking midfielder / withdrawn forward. Everyone knows a number 9 is a goalscoring striker, a false 9 is someone who starts up top but drops off and lets others play off of him.

Granted, I'm not immediately sure what a 6 would be, as that's generally either a centre back or perhaps a defensive midfielder (although the latter was usually number 4 in England I think). In Brazil a traditional number 6 would have actually been the left back, interestingly, and the defensive midfielder would be the 5. So you do have a point, I think it works with some numbers but not others.

 

[nickjdavis]

I think most people do understand, largely because those terms endure. Everyone knows a 'number 10' means your central attacking midfielder / withdrawn forward. Everyone knows a number 9 is a goalscoring striker, a false 9 is someone who starts up top but drops off and lets others play off of him.

Granted, I'm not immediately sure what a 6 would be, as that's generally either a centre back or perhaps a defensive midfielder (although the latter was usually number 4 in England I think). In Brazil a traditional number 6 would have actually been the left back, interestingly, and the defensive midfielder would be the 5. So you do have a point, I think it works with some numbers but not others.

For folks of a certain vintage your number 10 is actually your inside left forward, 11 left winger, 9 center forward, 8 the right inside forward, 7 is right wing. 6,5 and 4 are your left, center and right halves. 3 & 2 are your backs.

 

[clubchamp98]

Assuming VAR went down the route of it being a clear and obvious error, either the handball itself or the fact it might have been in the area, they were spot on to ask the referee to review it.

And having done so, to overturn his decision, to the detriment of Liverpool at home, with the incident occurring in front of the Kop, was absolutely first class.

We all know most referees cave in in such circumstances. It is precisely why their overturning of blatantly incorrect on field decisions is so rare, as is their sticking with on-field decisions when VAR suggest they take another look.

Absolutely first class refereeing. Take the Liverpool FC blinkers off.

Sorry I disagree .
A first class ref would not make a simple error like that imo.
Good from VAR yes .

Got no blinkers on as I have clearly said “ it wasn’t handball” and not a penalty.

 

[Swango1980]

That was the first time in a while where VAR has been used properly

I suspect that the ref initially thought the ball hit the outstretched hand hence giving the free kick

When VAR checked and you can see that the ball hit the hand close to the body and it was in the area then it’s potentially a penalty and the referee was giving the opportunity to check - which he did and came to the right call - it wasn’t a penalty

But no idea why it wasn’t a corner

Referee was good last night , didn’t get sucked in by Madrid throwing themselves to the floor - shame he didn’t give Vinicius JR the second yellow for his blatant embarrassing dive in the penalty area

1. Good point about the corner. presumably because the referee stopped play before the ball technically went out for a corner, then he didn't havce the option to officially give a corner once he correctly realised it wasn't a handball?

2. Was this the incident he was caught in the face? In fairness, he was genuinely caught in the face (accidentally), and that probably hurt. It doesn't take much for something like that to sting. However, I don't think he was demanding a penalty? I think it just stunned him, and he seemed to shake hands with the Liverpool player soon afterwards.

 

[Orikoru]

For folks of a certain vintage your number 10 is actually your inside left forward, 11 left winger, 9 center forward, 8 the right inside forward, 7 is right wing. 6,5 and 4 are your left, center and right halves. 3 & 2 are your backs.

Yeah, I get that, and the modern day numbers evolved from them as players were moved back within the formation. When I think about it, 5 as the defensive midfielder makes the most sense, yet that is normally a centre back nowadays.



Used 4-3-3 as an example as that is closest to the old 2-3-5.

Edit: Just realised 4 & 6 should be the other way round but I'm not re-doing it lol.

 

[clubchamp98]

1. Good point about the corner. presumably because the referee stopped play before the ball technically went out for a corner, then he didn't havce the option to officially give a corner once he correctly realised it wasn't a handball?

2. Was this the incident he was caught in the face? In fairness, he was genuinely caught in the face (accidentally), and that probably hurt. It doesn't take much for something like that to sting. However, I don't think he was demanding a penalty? I think it just stunned him, and he seemed to shake hands with the Liverpool player soon afterwards.

Agree but it’s only elite footballers that their legs crumble when brushed in the face.

 

[Swango1980]

Sorry I disagree .
A first class ref would not make a simple error like that imo.
Good from VAR yes .

Got no blinkers on as I have clearly said “ it wasn’t handball” and not a penalty.

The referee came to exactly the same conclusion you did once he saw the footage you saw. Why criticise him?

Perhaps when you see something within a fraction of a second, things can actually appear differently to how you'd see them if you had time to enalyse and see from different angles? The ref probably saw the defender fly out, ball hit a hand, and maybe saw the right arm high in the air, and concluded the ball was blocked by the outstretched arm.

Pick any referee in football history, pick the best referees that ever existed. I can guarantee they made incorrect calls in their careers, when being a few metres away from the incident.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

@Orikoru 5 is your centre half . 6 is your defensive midfielder. 4 & 5 are next to each other.

Watch some MotD or The Big Match from the 70's and 80's on youtube

 

[Swango1980]

Agree but it’s only elite footballers that their legs crumble when brushed in the face.

I'd love some fans to feel the impact of getting an arm in the face when running at speed, and then define that as a "brush".

I've seen amateur footballers go down like a sack of spuds when the contact was seemingly mild.

It is easy for the arm chair fans to dismiss such incidents, and blame the player of play acting. In fairness, I get the point, because there are plenty of times a footballer is clearly play acting. But, last night, it genuinely looked like Junior got a stinger on the face.

 

[clubchamp98]

The referee came to exactly the same conclusion you did once he saw the footage you saw. Why criticise him?

Perhaps when you see something within a fraction of a second, things can actually appear differently to how you'd see them if you had time to enalyse and see from different angles? The ref probably saw the defender fly out, ball hit a hand, and maybe saw the right arm high in the air, and concluded the ball was blocked by the outstretched arm.

Pick any referee in football history, pick the best referees that ever existed. I can guarantee they made incorrect calls in their careers, when being a few metres away from the incident.

It was the first class ref comment.

He wasn’t first class that’s when you don’t make mistakes.

 

[clubchamp98]

@Orikoru 5 is your centre half . 6 is your defensive midfielder. 4 & 5 are next to each other.

Watch some MotD or The Big Match from the 70's and 80's on youtube

4 was the sweeper when I played

 

[Swango1980]

It was the first class ref comment.

He wasn’t first class that’s when you don’t make mistakes.

Name a ref that has never made a mistake.

 

[clubchamp98]

I'd love some fans to feel the impact of getting an arm in the face when running at speed, and then define that as a "brush".

I've seen amateur footballers go down like a sack of spuds when the contact was seemingly mild.

It is easy for the arm chair fans to dismiss such incidents, and blame the player of play acting. In fairness, I get the point, because there are plenty of times a footballer is clearly play acting. But, last night, it genuinely looked like Junior got a stinger on the face.

No arm in this instance.
Bradley brushed him with his fingertip.
It’s just plain cheating

 

[clubchamp98]

Name a ref that has never made a mistake.

They all do .
But that’s not first class is it.
That’s all I’m saying.

 

[Orikoru]

@Orikoru 5 is your centre half . 6 is your defensive midfielder. 4 & 5 are next to each other.

Watch some MotD or The Big Match from the 70's and 80's on youtube

Agree that 5 is nearly always the centre back. My point was that it shouldn't be, really, having evolved from that 2-3-5 layout it would make more sense for the 5 to be the defensive midfielder, and 4 & 6 be the centre backs.

However, I see number 4 as the defensive midfielder and the 6 as a centre back, as that's how it was in the 90s 4-4-2 era.

10 . . . 9
11 . . . 8 . . . 4 . . . 7
3 . . . 6 . . . 5 . . . 2
​

Just think of Paul Ince, David Batty, even Gerrard later wore 4 for England for example.

1990 squad, slightly before my time, but 4 was Webb, 6 was Butcher.
1996 & 1998 squads, 4 was Ince, 6 Southgate.
Moving forward to 2004 & 2006, 4 was Gerrard, 6 was Campbell, then Terry.

 

[Swango1980]

They all do .
But that’s not first class is it.
That’s all I’m saying.

Was the comment not that VAR was used, the ref watched the screen, and then came to the right conclusion? Surely that is "first class" as opposed to second of third class? He got it right.

Nobody said that his instinctive on field decision was "first class". Just that the use of VAR, and the onfield ref coming to the correct decision was "first class"

 

[Swango1980]

No arm in this instance.
Bradley brushed him with his fingertip.
It’s just plain cheating

We can just disagree on that one then. I still think it would have genuinely hurt, and I didn't think he was ever demanding a penalty. Not every time a player goes to ground, when no foul is committed, is a case of the player automatically cheating, in my opinion.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

@Orikoru 5 is your centre half . 6 is your defensive midfielder. 4 & 5 are next to each other.

Watch some MotD or The Big Match from the 70's and 80's on youtube

I always wore number 5 and always played attacking midfield.

 

[Orikoru]

I always wore number 5 and always played attacking midfield.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Exactly like that!! I chose it as a kid as my favourite number no idea why then when Zidane wore it I thought I was even cooler