The Footie Thread

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Liverpoolphil said:
It happens a lot in football - loyalty bonuses some use , players get them in contracts to protect from a loss of earnings if they are sold on to another club

Because it’s Man Utd that want Maguire to leave then it’s the club wanting the contract to be stopped and for the player to end up losing money so he has asked that if you want me to leave then I would like a compensation package as such , maybe it’s a bit like being made redundant.

If it was the player engineering the move then it’s down to the player and there is no compensation etc

It’s why clubs tell players if they want to leave - put in a transfer request , it removes loyalty bonuses etc
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I take your point Phil, but quite clearly United were under no obligation to pay up the remainder of his contract if he had moved to West Ham, or they would have done it.

Bottom line is that all those here claiming United “owed” him that money are wrong. Maguire wanted a juicy pay off he was not contractually entitled to and the club said no. So he stays and warms the bench. His choice.

Slime said:
I really hope something controversial happens in the Premier League this weekend, if only to change the subject matter away from Maguire.
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I’m actually keeping fingers crossed for a weekend of VAR controversy for the same reason!
 
Billysboots said:
The discussion regarding Maguire and United is clearly rumbling on, and I remain really uncomfortable with the suggestion that the club are being unreasonable in not paying up the remainder of his contract. As I said yesterday, I have never heard the same argument trotted out whenever any other player has been sold and his new club have paid him less than the selling club. Not once. And yet it surely must happen.

So here’s something for us all to ponder on. Surely, at the point Club A sells a player to Club B, Club A’s contractual obligations to that player cease. The slate is wiped clean. I would go as far as to suggest that contracts probably include clauses to that effect.

And yet all I am hearing are howls of derision here about how Maguire is owed this money, and how United are behaving in a despicable manner in denying him what is rightfully his.

Think about it for a moment. There are lots of players at United and elsewhere on big contracts. It’s actually quite rare for clubs to allow those contracts to wind down so that players leave for nothing, so we continue to see them being sold. If a player is approaching the end of his career, or has consistently shown that his performances don’t warrant the salary being paid, it’s very likely that his new club will offer a lower salary.

So why should Manchester United, or any other club for all that matter, be held to ransom by someone like Maguire? If they pay him what he is contractually owed, despite the sale meaning that contract is brought to a premature conclusion - he will be contracted to a new club, let’s not forget - then a clear and dangerous precedent is set. It means any player sold prior to the end of their contract, for whatever reason, can claim financial settlement from the selling club totally disregarding the fact they are under a new contract and still earning very good money elsewhere.

Sorry, but I still maintain those arguing that Harry Maguire is being hard done by are singling his circumstances out for unrealistic criticism despite players being moved on in this way quite regularly. So again, I ask why?
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I am not sure I fully agree, though none of this is having a pop at United or any other club.

Lets say I am employed (profession does not matter) on a fixed term contract for 5 years for a million pounds a year (making up numbers for ease of maths). After 3 years, the company does not need me any more but remains bound by the contract and so has to keep paying me. Another company steps in and says they are willing to offer me a job for 3 years but only pay £600000.00. At this stage there is only room for negotiation. I cannot leave my current contract without the company agreeing in the same way that they cannot force me to take the new job so we negotiate. Neither is holding the other to ransom, both parties are bound to a contractual position and so both have to reach agreement. In this case, Maguire does not want to lose out financially and so has asked for a severance package, that happens in all walks of life.

If the position were reversed and a club came in with a low offer to buy Maguire and he said he wanted to leave but United held out for a bigger transfer fee, is that a club holding a player to ransom.

You are correct, the club would not owe the player anything once the contract ends and hence these negotiations are part of reaching and agreement to end the contract.

I think that this happens all of the time, it is just that this one has happened far more publicly. Who is responsible for that, the player or the club, is yet to be seen.

From my point of view, there are no howls of derision or anything like that, just simple contract and employment law and, whilst there are a number of unique elements to football, the basics are the the same as are faced by any contractor who works on fixed term contracts.
 
Billysboots said:
I take your point Phil, but quite clearly United were under no obligation to pay up the remainder of his contract if he had moved to West Ham, or they would have done it.

Bottom line is that all those here claiming United “owed” him that money are wrong. Maguire wanted a juicy pay off he was not contractually entitled to and the club said no. So he stays and warms the bench. His choice.
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All the times club pay players wages to get them off the books , they pay say 40% of wages to move to another club who won't pay the wages .

Sometimes players accept lower contracts to play regular football

All that matters is that it suits the player

After all these contracts are agreed by both parties , maigure doesn't want to leave for whatever reason he is under no obligation to do so
 
GB72 said:
I am not sure I fully agree, though none of this is having a pop at United or any other club.

Lets say I am employed (profession does not matter) on a fixed term contract for 5 years for a million pounds a year (making up numbers for ease of maths). After 3 years, the company does not need me any more but remains bound by the contract and so has to keep paying me. Another company steps in and says they are willing to offer me a job for 3 years but only pay £600000.00. At this stage there is only room for negotiation. I cannot leave my current contract without the company agreeing in the same way that they cannot force me to take the new job so we negotiate. Neither is holding the other to ransom, both parties are bound to a contractual position and so both have to reach agreement. In this case, Maguire does not want to lose out financially and so has asked for a severance package, that happens in all walks of life.

If the position were reversed and a club came in with a low offer to buy Maguire and he said he wanted to leave but United held out for a bigger transfer fee, is that a club holding a player to ransom.

You are correct, the club would not owe the player anything once the contract ends and hence these negotiations are part of reaching and agreement to end the contract.

I think that this happens all of the time, it is just that this one has happened far more publicly. Who is responsible for that, the player or the club, is yet to be seen.

From my point of view, there are no howls of derision or anything like that, just simple contract and employment law and, whilst there are a number of unique elements to football, the basics are the the same as are faced by any contractor who works on fixed term contracts.
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You can't compare football to any other 'normal' industry. In your scenario sitting out your contract for more money and no work to do is an absolute no-brainer. In football terms though, we generally assume that footballers want to be playing football regularly. Also in your scenario, you are probably not ridiculed daily in the media at the original job.
 
Slime said:
I really hope something controversial happens in the Premier League this weekend, if only to change the subject matter away from Maguire.
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If Wolves beat Liverpool on Saturday then your wish will come true 😄 . It will undoubtedly be down to the ref, VAR, penalties given / not given, red cars given / not given, persistent fouls missed etc. Just hang in there.
 
Orikoru said:
You can't compare football to any other 'normal' industry. In your scenario sitting out your contract for more money and no work to do is an absolute no-brainer. In football terms though, we generally assume that footballers want to be playing football regularly. Also in your scenario, you are probably not ridiculed daily in the media at the original job.
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As I said, there are peripheral differences but the contractual element remains the same and that is the point. At the bottom of this are simple fixed term employment negotiations. That is why all the talk of holding the other side to ransom etc are not really relevant. Both sides have an obligation under a contract, both sides are currently fulfilling them but, in the absence of any pre agreed break clause, to end the contract requires agreement from both sides. The problem is that the emotion of football gets involved for those on the outside. In this case it is fairly simple, the club have put forward an offer to end the contract and allow a new contract with another club to be entered into. The player has decided that the offer from the current club or the offer from the new club are not sufficient and so the current employment contract continues.

There are more high profile cases than this one. You could argue that Bale did it at Madrid for years.
 
The squads of 25 were confirmed now weren't they? Were there any surprise inclusions/exclusions? From a Spurs point of view we included Lloris since he's not been able to find a club to leave for yet.

Also a fun opportunity to find the best middle name(s). https://www.premierleague.com/news/3681595
I think Elijah Anuoluwapo Oluwaferanmi Oluwatomi Oluwalana Ayomikulehin Adebayo is going to take some beating.
 
Orikoru said:
The squads of 25 were confirmed now weren't they? Were there any surprise inclusions/exclusions? From a Spurs point of view we included Lloris since he's not been able to find a club to leave for yet.

Also a fun opportunity to find the best middle name(s). https://www.premierleague.com/news/3681595
I think Elijah Anuoluwapo Oluwaferanmi Oluwatomi Oluwalana Ayomikulehin Adebayo is going to take some beating.
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Well that rules out lingard I believe?

Kurt happy zouma isn't happy about this
 
Orikoru said:
The squads of 25 were confirmed now weren't they? Were there any surprise inclusions/exclusions? From a Spurs point of view we included Lloris since he's not been able to find a club to leave for yet.

Also a fun opportunity to find the best middle name(s). https://www.premierleague.com/news/3681595
I think Elijah Anuoluwapo Oluwaferanmi Oluwatomi Oluwalana Ayomikulehin Adebayo is going to take some beating.
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Bournemouths... Hansen, Emiliano Marcondes Camargo stands out for having three seemingly Spanish names with a Scandinavian surname!!!
 
Orikoru said:
The squads of 25 were confirmed now weren't they? Were there any surprise inclusions/exclusions? From a Spurs point of view we included Lloris since he's not been able to find a club to leave for yet.

Also a fun opportunity to find the best middle name(s). https://www.premierleague.com/news/3681595
I think Elijah Anuoluwapo Oluwaferanmi Oluwatomi Oluwalana Ayomikulehin Adebayo is going to take some beating.
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There's some absolute winners in the Forest Squad, given our plethora of South American and African players;

Nuno Albertino Varela Tavares
Danilo Dos Santos De Oliveira
Felipe Augusto De Almeida Monteiro
Temitayo Olufisayo Olaoluwa Aina

25 was pretty much as expected - with the surprise inclusion of Harry Toffolo (which wasn't actually a surprise given his ban is suspended). Nice to see Jonjo Nowhere near it though. He's hopefully going to be off the books for another season if he's going to Turkey before close of play tomorrow.

Feel a bit for Ethan Horvath who helped get us promoted - had a great season on Loan to Luton last year (and got them promoted) and now is without a game.

Looking forward to Monday night under the lights at the City Ground.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
If Wolves beat Liverpool on Saturday then your wish will come true 😄 . It will undoubtedly be down to the ref, VAR, penalties given / not given, red cars given / not given, persistent fouls missed etc. Just hang in there.
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Didnt take long to get the thread back onto Liverpool:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Aztecs27 said:
There's some absolute winners in the Forest Squad, given our plethora of South American and African players;

Nuno Albertino Varela Tavares
Danilo Dos Santos De Oliveira
Felipe Augusto De Almeida Monteiro
Temitayo Olufisayo Olaoluwa Aina

25 was pretty much as expected - with the surprise inclusion of Harry Toffolo (which wasn't actually a surprise given his ban is suspended). Nice to see Jonjo Nowhere near it though. He's hopefully going to be off the books for another season if he's going to Turkey before close of play tomorrow.

Feel a bit for Ethan Horvath who helped get us promoted - had a great season on Loan to Luton last year (and got them promoted) and now is without a game.

Looking forward to Monday night under the lights at the City Ground.
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These guys went out just after me today.
 

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