The Footie Thread

[Deleted member 21784]

Fans like a bit of alliteration. I don't think you need to look too much deeper than that.

Well that and when he broke through he had puppy fat, as did Joe cole

Not like the players of today who hit the gym from day 1

Ashton used to always get called chunky but then once he retired he did put the timber on.. such a shame what a player

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Well that and when he broke through he had puppy fat, as did Joe cole

Not like the players of today who hit the gym from day 1

Ashton used to always get called chunky but then once he retired he did put the timber on.. such a shame what a player

No chunky Cole or Jubbly Joe though. As I say, I don't think the name is too deep in its origin. For those who don't like him it's an easy one to use. I doubt he loses too much sleep over it.

 

[Orikoru]

Well that and when he broke through he had puppy fat, as did Joe cole

Not like the players of today who hit the gym from day 1

Ashton used to always get called chunky but then once he retired he did put the timber on.. such a shame what a player

Some players obviously struggle more than others, maybe metabolism etc. Rooney you could always tell was carrying a bit, but he would get by on pure adrenaline. As you say, most players nowadays don't have an ounce of fat on them. I think Cristiano Ronaldo is one of those who helped changed that mentality in football. He always looked like an adonis and he's still going at nearly 38 years old. Whereas the original Ronaldo for example - every bit of talent you could hope for, but obviously struggled fitness-wise, was pretty much done at 31 and nowadays he looks obese.

 

[Foxholer]

That's not how VAR has worked for the last 33 games.

Every decison that a on field ref has been told to go and check the monitor has been overturned.

That simply indicates consistency of Rules application - both Ref and VAR (now) agree. And the way VAR works. It's the Ref that makes the final decision.
Have you counted the number where Ref indicates VAR involvement and play subsequently continues - which indicates VAR satisfied with Ref's ruling? That too is 'how VAR has worked for the last 33 games'. And that's without counting those where VAR checks without any comms and agrees with Ref's decision.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Some players obviously struggle more than others, maybe metabolism etc. Rooney you could always tell was carrying a bit, but he would get by on pure adrenaline. As you say, most players nowadays don't have an ounce of fat on them. I think Cristiano Ronaldo is one of those who helped changed that mentality in football. He always looked like an adonis and he's still going at nearly 38 years old. Whereas the original Ronaldo for example - every bit of talent you could hope for, but obviously struggled fitness-wise, was pretty much done at 31 and nowadays he looks obese.

Could tell Rooney was built so that soon as the training went he would pile on a bit, like u say some players are wired that way

 

[Deleted member 21784]

No chunky Cole or Jubbly Joe though. As I say, I don't think the name is too deep in its origin. For those who don't like him it's an easy one to use. I doubt he loses too much sleep over it.

Cole was the prodigal son where as Frank was always deemed to be in the team because of his dad and uncle

Tbh lampard looked better at chelsea because he was surrounded by class, it allowed him to shine

Not like a cole who had the skills to shine or a rice / Carrick who dominated the midfield

 

[Deleted member 1740]

It often feels like that, thankfully it is only restricted to penalty box incidents, potential red card offences and offsides at the moment. Had any Liverpool player gone down under a similar tangle with Michael Keane, and the ref didn't give it, I'm sure there'd have been cries for the ref to at least wait to see if VAR had a different view. And, given the pressure he'd be under by the home fans, I think he'd be far more willing to tell Jordan Pickford to hang on for a second before putting the ball back into play.

Of course there would've, like at any ground in any country, it still doesnt make the ref wrong.

Believe me or not, Refs these days rarely get swayed by the home crowd.

He was in a great position to see the coming together, he didnt need VAR.

Everton have had more pens against us in the last 10yrs than we have against them at Anfield.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

That simply indicates consistency of Rules application - both Ref and VAR (now) agree. And the way VAR works. It's the Ref that makes the final decision.
Have you counted the number where Ref indicates VAR involvement and play subsequently continues - which indicates VAR satisfied with Ref's ruling? That too is 'how VAR has worked for the last 33 games'. And that's without counting those where VAR checks without any comms and agrees with Ref's decision.

No he doesnt make the final decision once VAR intervenes. Every ref who has been directed to the Pitchside Monitor this season every decision has been overturned.

 

[Swango1980]

Of course there would've, like at any ground in any country, it still doesnt make the ref wrong.

Believe me or not, Refs these days rarely get swayed by the home crowd.

He was in a great position to see the coming together, he didnt need VAR.

Everton have had more pens against us in the last 10yrs than we have against them at Anfield.

That isn't exactly a good reason, is it? We've seen refs in the most fantastic positions frequently, and they still need VAR as they make the wrong initial call. There have been enough people saying Liverpool were lucky, even those with Liverpool connections. So, there was some doubt there, regardless of what the initial decision was by the ref. Why did Gordon fall over anyway?

 

[Foxholer]

...
Everton have had more pens against us in the last 10yrs than we have against them at Anfield.

That's a pretty useless/pointless stat imo.
That could be used to indicate that Liverpool are a 'dirtier' team - not that that's what I'm suggesting.

 

[Foxholer]

No he doesnt make the final decision once VAR intervenes. Every ref who has been directed to the Pitchside Monitor this season every decision has been overturned.

Tw.....
From this document..https://www.premierleague.com/news/1293321
<Quote>
Can VAR overrule a referee?
No. The final decision is always taken by the on-field referee. The VAR only provides advice.
<End Quote>
And, as I posted earlier, it's only those incidents 'where the information received from the VAR falls outside of the referee’s expectation range, or where there is a serious missed incident, the referee can use the RRA to assist with a final decision.' (also from above document).

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Tw.....
From this document..https://www.premierleague.com/news/1293321
<Quote>
Can VAR overrule a referee?
No. The final decision is always taken by the on-field referee. The VAR only provides advice.
<End Quote>
And, as I posted earlier, it's only those incidents 'where the information received from the VAR falls outside of the referee’s expectation range, or where there is a serious missed incident, the referee can use the RRA to assist with a final decision.' (also from above document).

Ok. On the balance of probability, you'd expect at least 1 of the 53 Pitchside Monitor referrals to be upheld, no?

With that in mind, i dont believe refs do get the final say.

 

[Bdill93]

Ok. On the balance of probability, you'd expect at least 1 of the 53 Pitchside Monitor referrals to be upheld, no?

With that in mind, i dont believe refs do get the final say.

I agree!

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Ok. On the balance of probability, you'd expect at least 1 of the 53 Pitchside Monitor referrals to be upheld, no?

With that in mind, i dont believe refs do get the final say.

There is belief and fact. The refs say is final. However when sent to VAR doubt is put in their mind.

The ref explains their decision to var and var explains what they saw and the ref will decide if they change their mind or not.

Ref can also ask to review decisions they make.

 

[Foxholer]

Ok. On the balance of probability, you'd expect at least 1 of the 53 Pitchside Monitor referrals to be upheld, no?

No - Given the 'clear and obvious' criteria for a referral.

...
With that in mind, i dont believe refs do get the final say.

In spite of the fact that that's what the Rules (of VAR) state.

 

[Jimaroid]

From this document..https://www.premierleague.com/news/1293321

That's 2 years old.

The reality is measuring overturns vs. rejected overturns. Ref's haven't rejected any VAR overturns at all this season and it appears to be intentional so that "VAR is always right"

 

[greenone]

what planet is this ref on?

?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

That isn't exactly a good reason, is it? We've seen refs in the most fantastic positions frequently, and they still need VAR as they make the wrong initial call. There have been enough people saying Liverpool were lucky, even those with Liverpool connections. So, there was some doubt there, regardless of what the initial decision was by the ref. Why did Gordon fall over anyway?

Of course it is!! He's a referee, he's there to officiate the game how he sees fit within the laws of the game.

Yes they get stuff wrong, they're human. We've been on the end of them too. As a fan it annoys you but it is what it is.

If he was in a poor position then you'd have a valid point that VAR should've been used but isnt that the idea of it?

Have you seen him play this season?

He admitted himself he felt contact, so went down to gain an advantage.

Not all contact is a foul.

 

[Foxholer]

That's 2 years old.
...

Still applicable I believe. June 2020, so 2nd season of applicability. I'm happy if you can find and point to a more up-to-date one, but am certain the same text will apply to VAR referrals.

...
The reality is measuring overturns vs. rejected overturns. Ref's haven't rejected any VAR overturns at all this season and it appears to be intentional so that "VAR is always right"

Given the criteria for 'referral' to RRA, I would expect/hope that was the case!
What incidents does the VAR check?
VAR will be used only for “clear and obvious errors” or “serious missed incidents” in four match-changing situations: goals; penalty decisions; direct red-card incidents; and mistaken identity.
Anf FWIW..It's the Referree that overturns - as per 'final decision' above.

 

[Foxholer]

Of course it is!! He's a referee, he's there to officiate the game how he sees fit within the laws of the game.

Yes they get stuff wrong, they're human. We've been on the end of them too. As a fan it annoys you but it is what it is.

If he was in a poor position then you'd have a valid point that VAR should've been used but isnt that the idea of it?

Have you seen him play this season?

He admitted himself he felt contact, so went down to gain an advantage.

Not all contact is a foul.

Remember that, as per the doc I quoted earlier, VAR is only used in certain situations...
What incidents does the VAR check?
VAR will be used only for “clear and obvious errors” or “serious missed incidents” in four match-changing situations: goals; penalty decisions; direct red-card incidents; and mistaken identity.

Was the incident one of those?