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The Footie Thread

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Liverpoolphil said:
Don’t get me wrong - I hope it’s dealt with as strongly as it can and not brush under the carpet

I just don’t see what point there was in bringing Greenwood into the discussion , it’s two Totally different incidents
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Exactly. They ARE different. The victim in one is an animal. The victim in another is a human. THAT was the point.
 
Swango1980 said:
Exactly. They ARE different. The victim in one is an animal. The victim in another is a human. THAT was the point.
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?‍♂️ People know that - but your initial post was very much asking the question in relation to Greenwood’s treatment, it’s irrelevant and was no need to be mentioned in this scenario
 
pauljames87 said:
Missed the part where he raped the cat
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Would it help if there was no mention of rape in the Greenwood case, when using them as a comparison? So, imagine the only allegation against Greenwood were the pictures of his battered girlfriend. Would leaving it as an internal investigation, nothing more, be suitable punishment for him?
 
GB72 said:
I don't in any way expect the incidents to be treated the same but I do feel that animal cruielty can be swept under the rug and the anticipated slap on the wrist, maybe a club fine, is not enough. Look at the primary school teacher out this way who kicked and punched her horse on video. In court and sacked from her job. I am realistic, I suspect that a footballer with a multi million pound transfer value will not be sacked but I would expect an investigation and prosecution and if I were the club I would be encouraging a very significant donation to the cats protection league as well a bit of volunteer work and education.

All i know is that when i saw it I was sickened by the whole thing and my 2 moggies got an extra hug before I left this morning.
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Strange post?! You say that animal cruelty is swept under the rug, but then use as your example the case of a teacher who was in court and sacked from her job to 'prove' your point??

Going by the evidence of the two cases (Zouma and the teacher) it would appear that it's not a lack of care for animals that is the issue, but the fact that rich/famous people get special treatment that wouldn't be afforded the hoi polloi?
 
Liverpoolphil said:
?‍♂️ People know that - but your initial post was very much asking the question in relation to Greenwood’s treatment, it’s irrelevant and was no need to be mentioned in this scenario
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How is it irrelevant, when I am comparing the reaction against a footballer who abuses an animal compared to the reaction to a footballer who abuses a girlfriend?

Why do you get so worked up about some points, when there is literally no need? It is almost like you think I was trying to say we should treat Greenwood in the same way we are treating Zouma, whereas, if anything, I was saying it could almost be the complete opposite (i.e. should Zouma be treated much more harshly?)
 
Swango1980 said:
How is it irrelevant, when I am comparing the reaction against a footballer who abuses an animal compared to the reaction to a footballer who abuses a girlfriend?

Why do you get so worked up about some points, when there is literally no need? It is almost like you think I was trying to say we should treat Greenwood in the same way we are treating Zouma, whereas, if anything, I was saying it could almost be the complete opposite (i.e. should Zouma be treated much more harshly?)
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No.
 
Swango1980 said:
Would it help if there was no mention of rape in the Greenwood case, when using them as a comparison? So, imagine the only allegation against Greenwood were the pictures of his battered girlfriend. Would leaving it as an internal investigation, nothing more, be suitable punishment for him?
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Zouma admitted to his guilt that is the first step.. greenwood hasn't (that we know of) yet. So even so in court of law zouma would get lesser sentance for not putting Tiddles on the stand
 
Hopefully someone will kick him about a bit next time he’s at training.
 
pauljames87 said:
Zouma admitted to his guilt that is the first step.. greenwood hasn't (that we know of) yet. So even so in court of law zouma would get lesser sentance for not putting Tiddles on the stand
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Interesting point.

If Greenwood held up his hands and said "I did everything I have been accused of", would he then be treated the same as Zouma (or at least how I expect Zouma to be treated)? Almost definitely not, because cruelty against animals is not deemed as awful as cruelty against humans. So, as Zouma is a multi-million pound asset to West Ham, there will not be much of a punishment, apart from maybe a little fine and a few dodgy chants from the terraces. Greenwood is also a multi-million pound asset, but he has crossed the line and thus he experiences much more severe consequences.

Of course, the investigation into Greenwood has not yet found him guilty, so it would be jumping to conclusions is assuming he has anything to admit to yet.
 
phillarrow said:
Strange post?! You say that animal cruelty is swept under the rug, but then use as your example the case of a teacher who was in court and sacked from her job to 'prove' your point??

Going by the evidence of the two cases (Zouma and the teacher) it would appear that it's not a lack of care for animals that is the issue, but the fact that rich/famous people get special treatment that wouldn't be afforded the hoi polloi?
Click to expand...

Not that strange, the intention was to point out that, as appears to be happening here, it is swept under the rug and my comment about the Melton School teacher is more about what I expect to happen but what I know will not. Footballers have a direct cash vale to the club, most other emplyees do not and that in itself is enough to protect them in a number of circumstances.

In the real world, if most of us were in a the main stream media follwing such an incident, we would be dismissed on the spot and so I suspect that the only point of yours that I disagree with is not so much that footballers get a light touch becuase they are rich but rather because to treat them as normal employees would result in a loss of millions of pounds to the club.

I also feel that the treatment differs depending on the animal as well (always feel cruelty to dogs gets stronger enforcement than offences against cats) but that is another issue.
 
Swango1980 said:
Interesting point.

If Greenwood held up his hands and said "I did everything I have been accused of", would he then be treated the same as Zouma (or at least how I expect Zouma to be treated)? Almost definitely not, because cruelty against animals is not deemed as awful as cruelty against humans. So, as Zouma is a multi-million pound asset to West Ham, there will not be much of a punishment, apart from maybe a little fine and a few dodgy chants from the terraces. Greenwood is also a multi-million pound asset, but he has crossed the line and thus he experiences much more severe consequences.

Of course, the investigation into Greenwood has not yet found him guilty, so it would be jumping to conclusions is assuming he has anything to admit to yet.
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And because Zouma didn't rape his cat! :rolleyes:

Out of interest, have you ever deliberately killed a wasp or a fly? Or is it just furry animals that are 'equal' to humans in your eyes?
But then, have you ever, or would you ever, lay a mousetrap if your home was infested? Or is is just pets that are equal?
Where do you personally draw the line on the concept that cruelty to animals should be treated the same as cruelty to humans?
 
Can we get back to football please gents, this is just an argument now :ROFLMAO:

Looking forward to getting back to Villa Park tomorrow night, feels like its been ages! Squad is fit and healthy and its going to be a very interesting second half of the season for Villa fans!
 
Swango1980 said:
Interesting point.

If Greenwood held up his hands and said "I did everything I have been accused of", would he then be treated the same as Zouma (or at least how I expect Zouma to be treated)? Almost definitely not, because cruelty against animals is not deemed as awful as cruelty against humans. So, as Zouma is a multi-million pound asset to West Ham, there will not be much of a punishment, apart from maybe a little fine and a few dodgy chants from the terraces. Greenwood is also a multi-million pound asset, but he has crossed the line and thus he experiences much more severe consequences.

Of course, the investigation into Greenwood has not yet found him guilty, so it would be jumping to conclusions is assuming he has anything to admit to yet.
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No he wouldn't be because greenwood would be (if guilty) a grade A* scumbag the lowest of the low

Where as zouma has crept into the scale at maybe a D+ or C- scumbag

Still a scumbag but the fact the max in prison has just risen from 6 months to 5 years shows its not viewed as bad ..

If he wasn't a footballer it would probably have not registered as news .. where as greenwoods case regardless would ..
 
pauljames87 said:
No he wouldn't be because greenwood would be (if guilty) a grade A* scumbag the lowest of the low

Where as zouma has crept into the scale at maybe a D+ or C- scumbag

Still a scumbag but the fact the max in prison has just risen from 6 months to 5 years shows its not viewed as bad ..

If he wasn't a footballer it would probably have not registered as news .. where as greenwoods case regardless would ..
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I'm now intrigued to see the first published scumbag league table. Where is Jimmy Carr at right now? :LOL:
 
phillarrow said:
And because Zouma didn't rape his cat! :rolleyes:

Out of interest, have you ever deliberately killed a wasp or a fly? Or is it just furry animals that are 'equal' to humans in your eyes?
But then, have you ever, or would you ever, lay a mousetrap if your home was infested? Or is is just pets that are equal?
Where do you personally draw the line on the concept that cruelty to animals should be treated the same as cruelty to humans?
Click to expand...
Again, a very good point. But note, I have not demanded where the parameters should be set. And, I do not have the answers to where the parameters should be set. I have simply stated that cruelty against animals is deemed less awful that cruelty against humans. Many of the responses, such as yours, simply back that up.

The rape allegation is a red herring, because I am pretty certain Greenwood, or any footballer, would be in deep deep trouble if they were filmed beating up their girlfriend for fun.

Personally, I honestly do not think I've ever deliberately killed an animal. I hate wasps and spiders, but will move away from a wasp, and catch a spider in a glass and throw it out the window if it is in my house. Never had mice in my house either. But, where do I draw the line? Well, if somebody caught a mouse in a mouse trap, I would not judge them poorly, as I guess that is a necessary thing to do. If someone kicks their pet, or kicks a duck or other form of wildlife for a bit of a laugh, than I'd personally say they've easily crossed the line.
 
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