The First Year of WHS - Positives and Negatives

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sweaty sock

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Penalty scores are 'recommended' to be course rating + handicap. But seem to be totally at the discretion of your handicap committee....

Seems to widen the gap even further between handicaps, now it can be different club to club, never mind country to country....

WHS indeed...
 

Swango1980

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Penalty scores are 'recommended' to be course rating + handicap. But seem to be totally at the discretion of your handicap committee....

Seems to widen the gap even further between handicaps, now it can be different club to club, never mind country to country....

WHS indeed...
I'd imagine most handicap committees will stick to the automatic penalty, and only apply a different penalty score if they have evidence to do so. This would almost certainly be because they know the player has not returned a score to either keep a higher handicap (intentionally fail to submit a good score) or keep a low handicap (intentionally fail to submit a bad score). In both cases, the Committee would also almost certainly give the player a heavy warning, because the above actions are clearly inappropriate.

Most NRs are likely down to things like forgetfulness, and so the automatic penalty score likely to be left as it is. Hopefully these NRs are still easily highlighted, so that Committees can remind / warn persistent offenders. The biggest issue is likely going to be at clubs where handicap Committees simply leave general play rounds and the tech to its own devices, and never really check what is going on. You could then get many players who constantly fail to submit scores and never get a warning (unless the tech is set up to pretty much put a big red flag of some sort next to such players)

I think the automatic penalty is likely to make WHS more consistent between clubs, rather than less. It is simply another safety net to deal with such issues. But, the Committee still need to act where appropriate. Pre WHS, handicaps were still at the discretion of the Committee. A prime example was at the Annual Review or Continuous Reviews. Some Committees actually failed to adhere to their duties, and did things such as force players to only hand in good scores from roll ups, or chop handicaps further for anyone that won a comp regardless of score (these are 2 examples I know happened at certain clubs). There are always going to be variations on how Committees do things, so hopefully most clubs, and your club have a well educated Committee who act with the best integrity that they can.
 

SteveJay

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I laughed when I read "you are expected to complete the round and attempt to make the best score possible at each hole"

The latter is totally unenforceable and can never be checked or verified, even by someone playing with you. Imagine the conversation....I think you missed that 2 foot putt deliberately, or, wasn't that shank an attempt to increase your score/handicap :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

sweaty sock

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I'd imagine most handicap committees will stick to the automatic penalty, and only apply a different penalty score if they have evidence to do so. This would almost certainly be because they know the player has not returned a score to either keep a higher handicap (intentionally fail to submit a good score) or keep a low handicap (intentionally fail to submit a bad score). In both cases, the Committee would also almost certainly give the player a heavy warning, because the above actions are clearly inappropriate.

Most NRs are likely down to things like forgetfulness, and so the automatic penalty score likely to be left as it is. Hopefully these NRs are still easily highlighted, so that Committees can remind / warn persistent offenders. The biggest issue is likely going to be at clubs where handicap Committees simply leave general play rounds and the tech to its own devices, and never really check what is going on. You could then get many players who constantly fail to submit scores and never get a warning (unless the tech is set up to pretty much put a big red flag of some sort next to such players)

I think the automatic penalty is likely to make WHS more consistent between clubs, rather than less. It is simply another safety net to deal with such issues. But, the Committee still need to act where appropriate. Pre WHS, handicaps were still at the discretion of the Committee. A prime example was at the Annual Review or Continuous Reviews. Some Committees actually failed to adhere to their duties, and did things such as force players to only hand in good scores from roll ups, or chop handicaps further for anyone that won a comp regardless of score (these are 2 examples I know happened at certain clubs). There are always going to be variations on how Committees do things, so hopefully most clubs, and your club have a well educated Committee who act with the best integrity that they can.

Not sure if our club is common or not, but we've got regular repeat offenders. The handicap committee continually unable to close comps as they've torn up their card, walked past and ignored the terminal and went home...

Without understanding the finer details, I'm not sure if this makes things better or worse? Just adding 0.1 everytime it happens seems alot easier...
 

ExRabbit

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Not sure if our club is common or not, but we've got regular repeat offenders. The handicap committee continually unable to close comps as they've torn up their card, walked past and ignored the terminal and went home...

Without understanding the finer details, I'm not sure if this makes things better or worse? Just adding 0.1 everytime it happens seems alot easier...

The handicap committee should warn them, and then if they continue to do it, suspend them from competitions for a period of time.
 

Swango1980

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Not sure if our club is common or not, but we've got regular repeat offenders. The handicap committee continually unable to close comps as they've torn up their card, walked past and ignored the terminal and went home...

Without understanding the finer details, I'm not sure if this makes things better or worse? Just adding 0.1 everytime it happens seems alot easier...
This is why committees need to be even more on the ball now. No such thing as going up 0.1 for a bad round / no return
 

Swango1980

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I laughed when I read "you are expected to complete the round and attempt to make the best score possible at each hole"

The latter is totally unenforceable and can never be checked or verified, even by someone playing with you. Imagine the conversation....I think you missed that 2 foot putt deliberately, or, wasn't that shank an attempt to increase your score/handicap :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Basically, it is asking players to play with integrity. It shouldn't have to be enforced if players have that integrity. If they don't, then I'm sure they could just as easily ignore the rules of golf let alone the rules of handicapping.

Also, if players start back handing short putts and missing them, it would be fairly easy for any of their playing partners to question them.
 

badgergm

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I laughed when I read "you are expected to complete the round and attempt to make the best score possible at each hole"

The latter is totally unenforceable and can never be checked or verified, even by someone playing with you. Imagine the conversation....I think you missed that 2 foot putt deliberately, or, wasn't that shank an attempt to increase your score/handicap :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
It’s a key element of the approach of encouraging social golf to be used for handicapping purposes. And a major reason why that is a bad idea.
 

wjemather

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Not sure if our club is common or not, but we've got regular repeat offenders. The handicap committee continually unable to close comps as they've torn up their card, walked past and ignored the terminal and went home...

Without understanding the finer details, I'm not sure if this makes things better or worse? Just adding 0.1 everytime it happens seems alot easier...
Every club has (or had) repeat offenders. However, committees that have been doing their job will have educated their members and such things should be pretty rare at this point. If your club still has a problem, serious questions need to be asked of your committee.

0.1 each time may have been easier, but it was also completely arbitrary, being the same increase regardless of how many strokes above css+buffer was returned, and effectively encouraged no-returns of non-winning scores. Such habitual no-returners routinely wound up with much higher-handicaps than they should due to these missing buffer or better scores.
 

clubchamp98

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I'm not 100% what the automatic penalty score will be, but I'm almost sure it will be a score equal to Course Rating + Course Handicap. This will actually usually result in a reduced handicap, as a score equal to your course handicap will become one of your top 8 and remove your 8th best score (I say usually, because occasionally you may be losing a very good score that WAS your 20th oldest).

Therefore, the penalty score should not result in increasing handicap and benefit sandbaggers.

However, I also assume these will be flagged to Committee so they can easily check when this occurs? They can then adjust the penalty score if appropriate, as per WHS guidance. For example, if they feel low handicappers are not returning a score from bad rounds (to keep a low handicap), they can set a penalty score equal to the players worst score in last 20. If they feel a player is not returning good scores as they do not want big decreases in handicap, they can set the penalty score equal to the players best score in 20.
I got a penalty score of 36 over par.
I was off 6 cap.
It took us 3 1/2 hours to play 11 holes so we walked off and put cards in the bin. (First offence )
They know that score will never count on my best 8 so seems a bit harsh.
Slow play is a major problem and lots of players walk off all the time.
But penalty scores won’t solve that old chestnut.
 
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Swango1980

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I got a penalty score of 36 over par.
I was off 6 cap.
It took us 3 1/2 hours to play 11 holes so we walked off and put cards in the bin. (First offence )
They know that score will never count on my best 8 so seems a bit harsh.
Slow play is a major problem and lots of players walk off all the time.
But penalty scores won’t solve that old chestnut.
That penalty score does not follow the guidelines. This was before automatic penalty scores came into effect, so presumably someone on Committee entered this score themselves?
 

SteveJay

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Basically, it is asking players to play with integrity. It shouldn't have to be enforced if players have that integrity. If they don't, then I'm sure they could just as easily ignore the rules of golf let alone the rules of handicapping.

Also, if players start back handing short putts and missing them, it would be fairly easy for any of their playing partners to question them.

Not sure playing with integrity is the same as attempting to make the best possible score on each hole. I consider integrity to be about not cheating. If I don't take as much care with a shot because I duffed the last one (inadvertently) and already lost the hole in the friendly side bet matchplay game I am having, then I still feel I am acting with integrity, but appear to fall foul of the ridiculous EG statement.
 

Swango1980

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Not sure playing with integrity is the same as attempting to make the best possible score on each hole. I consider integrity to be about not cheating. If I don't take as much care with a shot because I duffed the last one (inadvertently) and already lost the hole in the friendly side bet matchplay game I am having, then I still feel I am acting with integrity, but appear to fall foul of the ridiculous EG statement.
If you lose your head momentarily in a game of golf, and that result in you not executing the next shot with your maximum focus, I doubt the authorities will be coming down on you like a ton of bricks. The mental part of the game is all part of golf.

If you are playing a friendly match play side bet, and you end up not taking much care in shots after you lose the hole, then clearly this "side bet" game is your priority. You shouldn't be submitting a card for handicap, if you are letting match play dictate your actions. It is one of the reasons why match play rounds are not currently acceptable for handicapping in the UK, because there would be a concern of this type of behaviour. If players noticed that you were submitting scores for handicap, but frequently observed this behaviour where you didn't take care on shots when the hole was lost on a frequent basis, then they would be within their own right to call you up on it. It is effectively cheating, because you are intentionally submitting scores for your handicap that could have been better had you tried to score as best you can on each hole. This could give you a higher handicap, and thus give you an unfair advantage in future. So, if that is you, act with integrity and don't submit a card. You probably won't get called up on it, especially if you are playing with a mate. So, if golfers are choosing to submit a score for handicap, we primarily rely on that golfer to try to do their best, even if there is the odd mental break down.
 
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