The First Year of WHS - Positives and Negatives

woofers

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This of course can be done by your club to suit their requirements.
Can it? I believe a club could state in the terms of a competition that ‘x’ number of scores should be recorded in order to enter a competition, although I have never seen this requirement featured in say, the open competitions I have played in.
Are you saying that a club can override the WHS and insist that ‘x’ number of scores must be returned annually, for example, in order to maintain a handicap? If so, I’d be interested in how this could be done, and under what rule / authority.
As it stands, it irks me that a handicap can be obtained after 3 rounds and then held for evermore, granted it would be updated from organised competitions, but if the player just turned up to society or team events it wouldn’t change.
I know of players whose handicap converted from CONGU to WHS with scores from 2018 and 2019 who are playing today with valid handicaps, although they wouldn’t be accepted as valid under the old system.
 

Swango1980

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Can it? I believe a club could state in the terms of a competition that ‘x’ number of scores should be recorded in order to enter a competition, although I have never seen this requirement featured in say, the open competitions I have played in.
Are you saying that a club can override the WHS and insist that ‘x’ number of scores must be returned annually, for example, in order to maintain a handicap? If so, I’d be interested in how this could be done, and under what rule / authority.
As it stands, it irks me that a handicap can be obtained after 3 rounds and then held for evermore, granted it would be updated from organised competitions, but if the player just turned up to society or team events it wouldn’t change.
I know of players whose handicap converted from CONGU to WHS with scores from 2018 and 2019 who are playing today with valid handicaps, although they wouldn’t be accepted as valid under the old system.
No, I think rulefan was simply suggesting the conditions of a competition can be set to say you can only enter if you have x scores on your WHS scoring history in the last year. So, it is separate from WHS, the player will still have an official WHS index.

However, I can't imagine many competitions will do this. Firstly, they'd need to make an active decision to do so. Secondly, I can't imagine it is easy from a practical point of view. They can't just click a setting on the competition settings and players will automatically be flagged if they do not meet this criteria. It would take the comp sec to go through every player and check their WHS Scoring History
 

rulefan

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No, I think rulefan was simply suggesting the conditions of a competition can be set to say you can only enter if you have x scores on your WHS scoring history in the last year. So, it is separate from WHS, the player will still have an official WHS index.
Correct.
As it happens we have a few competitions where entry is 'limited' to those who have played a minimum no of times. However the limit is on prize winning only. Anyone can enter for handicap purposes. It's only prizes winners that are checked.
 

woofers

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Thank you both, however as I said “And the bit I don’t like, is that there is no minimum number of scores to be returned within a specific timeframe to maintain a ‘valid‘ handicap.”…….. which is relevant to the WHS Positives and Negatives topic under discussion.
 
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Given last weeks Thursday rollup scores when you had to have 42pts to come in top 10 and as it was a non-Q and there were no R/U H/I adjustments, I didnt bother with it today.

I have not raised issue of this rollup not being a qualifier (on grounds of it being organised and over 60 competitors) as we do not currently have a qualifying course due to ongoing work on three holes.
 

Barking_Mad

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Can anyone help me this, I'm most confused..
Today I played Moor Allerton, Leeds. It's a course with three 9 hole loops.

Out of the three I played two, off the yellow tees.

Front 9
Name: Lakes
Score: 43
Course Rating: 35.1
Slope Rating: 125

Back 9
Name: High
Score: 41
Course Rating: 35.6
Slope Rating: 132

Total Par: 71
Course Handicap: 16
Gross Score: 84
Adjusted score: 84

Note: Course ratings and Slope ratings are from USPGA site.

On the handicap page on my golf app it lists the differential score as 44.1, and the rating as 35.2, which seems incorrect? How do I work this out?
 

rulefan

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Can anyone help me this, I'm most confused..
Today I played Moor Allerton, Leeds. It's a course with three 9 hole loops.

Out of the three I played two, off the yellow tees.

Front 9
Name: Lakes
Score: 43
Course Rating: 35.1
Slope Rating: 125

Back 9
Name: High
Score: 41
Course Rating: 35.6
Slope Rating: 132

Total Par: 71
Course Handicap: 16
Gross Score: 84
Adjusted score: 84

Note: Course ratings and Slope ratings are from USPGA site.

On the handicap page on my golf app it lists the differential score as 44.1, and the rating as 35.2, which seems incorrect? How do I work this out?


Moor Allerton Golf Club (1011478) - Blackmoor 10 to 18; 19 to 27;

Moor Allerton Golf Club (1011478) - High 1 to 9; 19 to 27;

Moor Allerton Golf Club (1011478) - Lakes 1 to 18

It would appear that you actually played the High course

https://www.randa.org/worldhandicapsystem/Lookup?CourseID=22448&ClubCountry=0&ClubName=Moor Allerton&ClubCity=&ClubCounty=undefined

PS: The link above is to the R&A site but the US site is via the USGA not the USPGA.
 

Barking_Mad

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Clearly I'm not understanding something.

There's three loops of 9 holes. Blackmoor, Lakes and High. I played Lakes as the first 9 and Blackmoor as the 2nd nine. I didn't play the same 9 holes twice. The pro in the shop said those two loops were for 18 holes, or Blackmoor for just the 9.
 
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Clearly I'm not understanding something.

There's three loops of 9 holes. Blackmoor, Lakes and High. I played Lakes as the first 9 and Blackmoor as the 2nd nine. I didn't play the same 9 holes twice. The pro in the shop said those two loops were for 18 holes, or Blackmoor for just the 9.
Possibly you've registered for a 9 hole round then returned an 18 hole score, thus the huge differential??
 

rulefan

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Clearly I'm not understanding something.

There's three loops of 9 holes. Blackmoor, Lakes and High. I played Lakes as the first 9 and Blackmoor as the 2nd nine. I didn't play the same 9 holes twice. The pro in the shop said those two loops were for 18 holes, or Blackmoor for just the 9.
The first 9 holes of the Lakes are the same first 9 of the High (ie 1-9 of the 27 holes).
The second 9 holes of the High are the same back 9 of the Blackmoor (19-27 of the 27 holes).
You played holes 1-9 & 19-27 (which makes up the High). Off the yellow tees the Course Rating for the 18 you played is 70.7 and the Slope is 129.
 

Barking_Mad

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The first 9 holes of the Lakes are the same first 9 of the High (ie 1-9 of the 27 holes).
The second 9 holes of the High are the same back 9 of the Blackmoor (19-27 of the 27 holes).
You played holes 1-9 & 19-27 (which makes up the High). Off the yellow tees the Course Rating for the 18 you played is 70.7 and the Slope is 129.
What a bonkers system. We I said my app is giving me a differential of 44.1 which can't be right so I've emailed them. Thanks for the help 👍
 

Barking_Mad

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Have you considered user error/incompetence/stupidity may be the issue here?
Hi,

I have double checked my gross score on Golfpad and checked the 9 hole loops were correctly assigned. All appears to be correct. On the screen where I select my tee for the round it gives a Course Rating of just 35.2. That looks wonky. The slope is correct and my course handicap.

FWIW it just seems, on the face of it confusing to not make them all 9 holes and let you pair two together, rather than listing them as above. To be fair the bloke in the proshop said it was a confusing place to play 🤔
 

rulefan

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Hi,

I have double checked my gross score on Golfpad and checked the 9 hole loops were correctly assigned. All appears to be correct. On the screen where I select my tee for the round it gives a Course Rating of just 35.2. That looks wonky. The slope is correct and my course handicap.

FWIW it just seems, on the face of it confusing to not make them all 9 holes and let you pair two together, rather than listing them as above. To be fair the bloke in the proshop said it was a confusing place to play 🤔
They have done exactly that. Holes 1-9 and 19-29 have been paired together to make the High course

The R&A website that I pointed you to shows that the 18 holes you actually played are correctly rated as the High course.
The Yellow tees have a Course Rating of 70.7 and a Slope of 129. As shown in this link.

https://www.randa.org/courseteeinfo?CourseID=22447&ClubCountry=0&ClubName=Moor Allerton&ClubCity=&ClubCounty=undefined

You will also see under Club/Course Name that it is described as the High course

Incidentally the USGA site is exactly the same as the R&A site.

https://ncrdb.usga.org/courseTeeInfo.aspx?CourseID=22447

Your differential would seem to be 11.7 (e&oe)
 
Last edited:
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Hi,

I have double checked my gross score on Golfpad and checked the 9 hole loops were correctly assigned. All appears to be correct. On the screen where I select my tee for the round it gives a Course Rating of just 35.2. That looks wonky. The slope is correct and my course handicap.

FWIW it just seems, on the face of it confusing to not make them all 9 holes and let you pair two together, rather than listing them as above. To be fair the bloke in the proshop said it was a confusing place to play 🤔
You've selected the 9 hole option instead of the 18. Rulefan has done the hard work for you, lesson learned.
 
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