Thatcher, history will show...

[Deleted member 15344]

Appreciate you maybe extremely emotional about this and totally get the reason why but I don't see why it is whoever shut down an industry responsibility for finding people in that industry another job.

The country already had unemployment problems - millions were already out of work and struggling to find work. Removing a lot of the industry just removed more jobs and created a bigger number of unemployment. There wasn't the work to go around and the government at the time didn't help the situation ( and th government before them plus the unions ) - in fact did the opposite by making the situation worse.

Investment into the industry , make a good quality product and people will buy it which then creates further jobs as the demand increases. Invest into the national products we had at the time and encourage people into the workforce - the more money being earned the more is being spent and the circle continues to improve ( very simplistic I know ) but putting more and more onto the dole queue added nothing and I know a lot still believe it was out of spite

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Was it that there weren't any jobs out there or that as is happening now people refusing to take jobs that they considered beneath them?

If you want to work then it is fairly easy to find a job. When I was made redundant I took a job in a call centre because I had to earn money to pay the bills. I could just have easily ended up working in a supermarket or anywhere else, but equally I could have decided that as I have a degree and other work related qualifications I could have sat on my backside and complained that there was no work out there for me.

There are jobs out there for people that want to work but it is far easy for them to whine and complain that they have lost their job and it's all the goverment's fault. It might not be your dream job or related to what you were doing before but it pays the bills and keeps food on the table and in my book that's the important thing.

They would have done any job possible as long is got them off the dole queue and gave them some pride in providing for their family instead of sponging of the state.

There was no shirking from them.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

In that whole ten year period did they never even consider being self employed?

I know loads folk who were made unemployed during that time.
Many successfully started small businesses, remember 'loadsamoney'.
One of my friends went from being unemployed by BT to employing six staff within two years.

For them to start a small business and become self employed would mean they would have the funds to have a start up business plus having the skills to start a business - not everyone can start up a business.

 

[Fish]

Because there wasn't jobs for everyone to go around especially when some were specialised in trades that were no longer needed. Two of my uncles spent a decade trying to get a job - every day out in the job centre going around places begging for work - nothing

I don't agree or accept this, I'm of the attitude that if you really want to work, you'll find it, even when I was building up my shop/s before they opened I was working nights just loading lorry's in Toy R Us to keep the pennies, however small they were, coming in. Some people think they're worth more than they are and choose not to work for what could seem to them a very low wage to what they were used to or could get close to in benefits.

It always amazes me that unemployment is so high and yet there are pages upon pages in my local paper on a Friday looking for people, whether it be bar work, cleaners, semi and even skilled work, which OK will be well sort after, the point I'm making is, if you sat in front of me for an interview and had been doing almost anything at any price I'd rather give that person a chance than someone who chose not to do anything at all, especially for a decade just waiting for that ideal job to come about whether they were better suited or not!

To not work for a decade, I'm sorry but that's down to the individual IMO, you could go on courses and re-train for something else within that period, you could look at being self employed, whether it be a window cleaner or anything, it's all about self drive and personal motivation IMO, if you're fit and able a decade unemployed is unacceptable IMO, even in the 80's there was the Enterprise Allowance scheme to give people a help into self employment, sometimes you have to start back at the bottom again, that's just the way it is, but some people feel it's beneath them.

 

[Del_Boy]

The country already had unemployment problems - millions were already out of work and struggling to find work. Removing a lot of the industry just removed more jobs and created a bigger number of unemployment. There wasn't the work to go around and the government at the time didn't help the situation ( and th government before them plus the unions ) - in fact did the opposite by making the situation worse.

Investment into the industry , make a good quality product and people will buy it which then creates further jobs as the demand increases. Invest into the national products we had at the time and encourage people into the workforce - the more money being earned the more is being spent and the circle continues to improve ( very simplistic I know ) but putting more and more onto the dole queue added nothing and I know a lot still believe it was out of spite

The coffers were bare there was no cash to invest it was a case of lets cash in what we can to make ends meet

 

[Del_Boy]

For them to start a small business and become self employed would mean they would have the funds to have a start up business plus having the skills to start a business - not everyone can start up a business.

Not all business' need funds to get going. Appreciate not everyone has the skills to start a business

 

[Fish]

Was it that there weren't any jobs out there or that as is happening now people refusing to take jobs that they considered beneath them?

If you want to work then it is fairly easy to find a job. When I was made redundant I took a job in a call centre because I had to earn money to pay the bills. I could just have easily ended up working in a supermarket or anywhere else, but equally I could have decided that as I have a degree and other work related qualifications I could have sat on my backside and complained that there was no work out there for me.

There are jobs out there for people that want to work but it is far easy for them to whine and complain that they have lost their job and it's all the goverment's fault. It might not be your dream job or related to what you were doing before but it pays the bills and keeps food on the table and in my book that's the important thing.

I agree, you wrote this as I was writing along the same lines.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Not all business' need funds to get going. Appreciate not everyone has the skills to start a business

They tried everything - tried to start gardening , cleaning cars , houses , one joined the army at 29 but the others couldn't , one even became a paperboy once a week for a free mag , they weren't businessmen - they spent their whole working life screwing bolts. Both ended up moving to N Ireland to get a job.

 

[Del_Boy]

They tried everything - tried to start gardening , cleaning cars , houses , one joined the army at 29 but the others couldn't , one even became a paperboy once a week for a free mag , they weren't businessmen - they spent their whole working life screwing bolts. Both ended up moving to N Ireland to get a job.

Sounds as if they got there in the end

 

[Fish]

Not all business' need funds to get going. Appreciate not everyone has the skills to start a business

There were funds available in the 80's for a few schemes, I know a mate who was a redundant toolmaker who then laboured for a guy on the roofs for 12 months and picked it up all very quickly, put a plan together with the help of the job centre and got £1k off the government Enterprise Allowance Scheme to start his own business, it paid for a van, some business cards and off he went, he's now one the biggest roofers in this area, sometimes it's not about skills in the full sense of the word, it's above self drive and ambition and the willingness to change your life and its direction, not blame everyone else.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Sounds as if they got there in the end

They did but at a personal cost and theirs wasn't the only story - they had mates losing their homes , families and some even lost their lives.

Just hope that people don't ever have to go through it all again and really do hope that the country continue to invest in its people and find a way to build back up our industry

We can't rely on being a financial hub - it's already gone belly up once before

 

[chrisd]

The company I worked for went bust and I mortgaged my house to start my own business. I didn't receive any help !

And many went the same way in subsequent recessions, the recent one has been pretty severe too

 

[Hobbit]

The country already had unemployment problems - millions were already out of work and struggling to find work. Removing a lot of the industry just removed more jobs and created a bigger number of unemployment. There wasn't the work to go around and the government at the time didn't help the situation ( and th government before them plus the unions ) - in fact did the opposite by making the situation worse.

Investment into the industry , make a good quality product and people will buy it which then creates further jobs as the demand increases. Invest into the national products we had at the time and encourage people into the workforce - the more money being earned the more is being spent and the circle continues to improve ( very simplistic I know ) but putting more and more onto the dole queue added nothing and I know a lot still believe it was out of spite

the ships being produced at docks around the country were too expensive and missed their delivery times by many months. Steel being produced was too expensive, British Leyland in the Midlands and Vauxhall at Ellesmere Port were too expensive, all for the same reason. Unions taking workers on strike at the drop of a hat.

I remember my grandfather crying at the dinner table because the docks were out again because a welder had done a job that a cleaner should have done.

the unions broke big industry in this country, made it way too expensive and then wanted even more money making it more expensive again.

its gone too far the other way now but the 70's and early 80's were horrendous if you worked in a union dominated industry. I know, I suffered it as did many of my relatives down the docks and at British Steel.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

the ships being produced at docks around the country were too expensive and missed their delivery times by many months. Steel being produced was too expensive, British Leyland in the Midlands and Vauxhall at Ellesmere Port were too expensive, all for the same reason. Unions taking workers on strike at the drop of a hat.

I remember my grandfather crying at the dinner table because the docks were out again because a welder had done a job that a cleaner should have done.

the unions broke big industry in this country, made it way too expensive and then wanted even more money making it more expensive again.

its gone too far the other way now but the 70's and early 80's were horrendous if you worked in a union dominated industry. I know, I suffered it as did many of my relatives down the docks and at British Steel.

Unions ( or their leaders at the very least ) take a good deal of the blame - a lot of the products produced was expensive compared to the cheaper products that could be imported in - at first it was more expensive because it was built with quality but then the product quality started to slip to try and compete.

Changes did need to be made - no doubt about that - blame on all sides and at times a lot was done out of spite when other changes could ( obviously a wild statement without a crystal ball ) have got the industry on the up in a lot of areas.

It has gone the other way and it's now so hard to find products that we produce mass market around the world that we are proud off - thankfully we still build in partnerships a lot of military equipment.

 

[Del_Boy]

They did but at a personal cost and theirs wasn't the only story - they had mates losing their homes , families and some even lost their lives.

Just hope that people don't ever have to go through it all again and really do hope that the country continue to invest in its people and find a way to build back up our industry

We can't rely on being a financial hub - it's already gone belly up once before

All industries can go belly up key is to have a wide portfolio

 

[Deleted member 15344]

All industries can go belly up key is to have a wide portfolio

I think a lot nowadays will try and become as multi skilled as possible

Back in the 70's and 80's it seemed not many were - with a lot of the guys in the main industries being restricted to single skills that didn't appear to be transferable - seen it in the military were people think they are safer by being "specialists" where as I believe I should be able to have more than one string to my bow.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I don't agree or accept this, I'm of the attitude that if you really want to work, you'll find it, even when I was building up my shop/s before they opened I was working nights just loading lorry's in Toy R Us to keep the pennies, however small they were, coming in. Some people think they're worth more than they are and choose not to work for what could seem to them a very low wage to what they were used to or could get close to in benefits.

It always amazes me that unemployment is so high and yet there are pages upon pages in my local paper on a Friday looking for people, whether it be bar work, cleaners, semi and even skilled work, which OK will be well sort after, the point I'm making is, if you sat in front of me for an interview and had been doing almost anything at any price I'd rather give that person a chance than someone who chose not to do anything at all, especially for a decade just waiting for that ideal job to come about whether they were better suited or not!

To not work for a decade, I'm sorry but that's down to the individual IMO, you could go on courses and re-train for something else within that period, you could look at being self employed, whether it be a window cleaner or anything, it's all about self drive and personal motivation IMO, if you're fit and able a decade unemployed is unacceptable IMO, even in the 80's there was the Enterprise Allowance scheme to give people a help into self employment, sometimes you have to start back at the bottom again, that's just the way it is, but some people feel it's beneath them.

To be fair, isn't it this "we'll do anything" attitude that the Eastern Europeans have fostered and taken on in the last few years. Nothing wrong with it in my opinion and I agree with you and at times, perhaps pride and a certain "Englishness" for want of a far more eloquent phrase got inthe way, especially at that time

 

[Fish]

I think a lot nowadays will try and become as multi skilled as possible

Back in the 70's and 80's it seemed not many were - with a lot of the guys in the main industries being restricted to single skills that didn't appear to be transferable - seen it in the military were people think they are safer by being "specialists" where as I believe I should be able to have more than one string to my bow.

But people are transferable so you move to the work, my family moved out of London to the Midlands, he went from the car industry to Triumph motorcycles and then back to the car industry here in Coventry, you adapt and learn new skills, you don't sit on your backside using the blame game, you make things happen yourself, I left school at 15 in 1975 with no qualifications and left the forces with nothing that could be really used also on the outside, but I made things happen for myself, eventually, self drive is what's needed, if you can't be arsed to work, you won't work, if go looking for work defeated, you'll be defeated. I worked in a large builders merchant before I went into the forces, we were always advertising and looking for drivers & yardmen, yet the factories were on their backside all over Coventry at the time, full of strikes and short time, but there were still other jobs out there if you wanted them, some people are frightened of change and simply accept the situation they find themselves in rather than doing something about it, IMO.

 

[Del_Boy]

World is full of people who go get and other's who expect to be given

 

[chrisd]

But people are transferable so you move to the work, my family moved out of London to the Midlands, he went from the car industry to Triumph motorcycles and then back to the car industry here in Coventry, you adapt and learn new skills, you don't sit on your backside using the blame game, you make things happen yourself, I left school at 15 in 1975 with no qualifications and left the forces with nothing that could be really used also on the outside, but I made things happen for myself, eventually, self drive is what's needed, if you can't be arsed to work, you won't work, if go looking for work defeated, you'll be defeated. I worked in a large builders merchant before I went into the forces, we were always advertising and looking for drivers & yardmen, yet the factories were on their backside all over Coventry at the time, full of strikes and short time, but there were still other jobs out there if you wanted them, some people are frightened of change and simply accept the situation they find themselves in rather than doing something about it, IMO.

Spot on !

The country doesn't owe anyone a living, we need to look after those who can't fend for themselves but there were many, back then who were so well off on benefits that they never wanted to go and find work.