Thatcher, history will show...

[JohnnyDee]

The thread about the 80s has caused me to ponder a little.

I'm a member of a golf club, a thing perhaps which is something of a bastion of middle or upper class aspirationalism.

I was born and raised on a massive council estate, at one time it was Europe's largest, and therefore probably on Dave's newly announced hit-list, and so hardly surprisingly my politics lean in a leftwards direction and are not aligned with those of many of my fellow members and friends at my club.

Many of my PPs are politically right-leaning in their views, and out of the 24 of us in our weekend group, there's probably only me and one or possibly two others who would argue against Maggie's record being prepared to point out its horrible selfish agenda.

When the thorny subject of politics arises, either in the bar or out on the course, I am saddened by the rose-coloured glasses applied to Thatcher's regiem and her time overall as PM by so many.

She was an extremely capable politician, no doubt about that, but she was an ogre when one (ooh, get me with my fancy talk) considers her lack of empathy and compassion towards those unable to help themselves in her greed-fuelled deplorably me-me-me first driven society.

Sadly most of those fans, both then and now, seem to have been happy to have been able to make a penny in the pound for themselves rather than have donated it to those less fortunate than them but in dire need of it.

Shame on them and their sickening greed.

 

[ruff-driver]

Did you not see the memo from mike H

Strictly no more politics threads , ever

 

[JohnnyDee]

Did you not see the memo from mike H

Strictly no more politics threads , ever

Oops, sorry but I didn't

If mods would like to delete this then please feel free to do so.

 

[Tashyboy]

Before they do am getting me two bobs worth in quickly.

to discuss Lady Thatcher you really had to live through her time in office to appreciate ? Her influence in politics.

Me if she was on fire my bladder remained full.

However my parents loved her, the fact the bought cutprice shares in nationalised industry's and made a fortune selling them later the same year was lost on them.
The fact now we don't have enough council houses coz they were sold off is lost on them.

yeah can see this thread being locked before the end of page one 😁

 

[MikeH]

Eh, Don't remember anything about political threads! Crack on. Just keep it as civil as any political discussion can be!

 

[chrisd]

Only a few months ago I debated long and hard with Liverpoolphil that Maggie was a great leader. I lived through her rise and fall but "of course" I was wrong because Phil disagreed and, as we all know, he's always right.

For me, she was the "right person at the right time" and exactly what the country needed, yes she was harsh but Britain was going down the plug hole and her uncompromising attitude turned things around, but I do accept that there were winners and losers during that time.

 

[Smiffy]

For me, she was the "right person at the right time" and exactly what the country needed, yes she was harsh but Britain was going down the plug hole and her uncompromising attitude turned things around, but I do accept that there were winners and losers during that time.

Is the correct answer.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Only a few months ago I debated long and hard with Liverpoolphil that Maggie was a great leader. I lived through her rise and fall but "of course" I was wrong because Phil disagreed and, as we all know, he's always right.

For me, she was the "right person at the right time" and exactly what the country needed, yes she was harsh but Britain was going down the plug hole and her uncompromising attitude turned things around, but I do accept that there were winners and losers during that time.

But surely we want our political leaders to look after all and if there are losers then they (what ever party they are) have got it wrong.
You can't say they were ok because some benefitted.
She absolutely split the Country and turned families on each other. How can that be justified by anyone, It was the start to people losing respect for authority and we're still answering for it today.

 

[chrisd]

But surely we want our political leaders to look after all and if there are losers then they (what ever party they are) have got it wrong.
You can't say they were ok because some benefitted.
She absolutely split the Country and turned families on each other. How can that be justified by anyone, It was the start to people losing respect for authority and we're still answering for it today.

I don't see any political party in power pleasing or caring for everyone. The current Government can be very divisive depending on your point of view but she did do 3 terms in office so someone must have liked her!

 

[shewy]

the oil boom in the UK saved the country not Thatcher, and as the saying goes the peed it all against the wall

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Eh, Don't remember anything about political threads! Crack on. Just keep it as civil as any political discussion can be!

I believe I am the originator of the two biggest threads on here...Rangers and Scotland Debate.
If threads on those two subjects can remain civil I think there is hope for all of us.:lol:

Regarding Thatcher, I gave her my vote in her first two elections, as did the entire 10/12 members of my green staff at that time.
The unions were in control of Labour and running the UK into the ground, as Chris D says, she was the right person at the right time.
Trouble was that she started believing all the things that the press were writing about her and went a bit dooladdy.

OP.........Shock horror........ members of a Berkshire golf club worship Maggie.......who would have thunk that.

 

[spongebob59]

So just out of interest, when it comes to an election (local or general or anything I guess really) do you think people vote for the result thats best for them or do people really sit down and think about the big picture.

 

[chrisd]

I believe I am the originator of the two biggest threads on here...Rangers and Scotland Debate.
If threads on those two subjects can remain civil I think there is hope for all of us.:lol:

Regarding Thatcher, I gave her my vote in her first two elections, as did the entire 10/12 members of my green staff at that time.
The unions were in control of Labour and running the UK into the ground, as Chris D says, she was the right person at the right time.
Trouble was that she started believing all the things that the press were writing about her and went a bit dooladdy.

OP.........Shock horror........ members of a Berkshire golf club worship Maggie.......who would have thunk that.

Even more "shock horror" we agree on something :lol::lol:

 

[delc]

Although I was Young Conservative and a supporter of the Conservative Party, I personally couldn't stand the woman. I thought she was nasty and vindictive, and represented everything that is wrong with the Tory Party!

 

[Tashyboy]

But surely we want our political leaders to look after all and if there are losers then they (what ever party they are) have got it wrong.
You can't say they were ok because some benefitted.
She absolutely split the Country and turned families on each other. How can that be justified by anyone, It was the start to people losing respect for authority and we're still answering for it today.

Is the correct answer. 😁

The People that loved her were the people that got something out of her. They were the winners.
The people that hated her where the ones that came from split families due to her policies. That was me.
The events and memories that unfolded at Orgreave Coke plant will stay with for the rest of my life. Put the antics of the picket lines on top of that and they were definately not good days. My thoughts on her are and always will be quite clear.
Do take on board that Labour were dire as opposition, and Mr Corbyn is a throwback to those days. But the thread is about Missis T.

 

[Hacker Khan]

The thread about the 80s has caused me to ponder a little.

I'm a member of a golf club, a thing perhaps which is something of a bastion of middle or upper class aspirationalism.

I was born and raised on a massive council estate, at one time it was Europe's largest, and therefore probably on Dave's newly announced hit-list, and so hardly surprisingly my politics lean in a leftwards direction and are not aligned with those of many of my fellow members and friends at my club.

Many of my PPs are politically right-leaning in their views, and out of the 24 of us in our weekend group, there's probably only me and one or possibly two others who would argue against Maggie's record being prepared to point out its horrible selfish agenda.

When the thorny subject of politics arises, either in the bar or out on the course, I am saddened by the rose-coloured glasses applied to Thatcher's regiem and her time overall as PM by so many.

She was an extremely capable politician, no doubt about that, but she was an ogre when one (ooh, get me with my fancy talk) considers her lack of empathy and compassion towards those unable to help themselves in her greed-fuelled deplorably me-me-me first driven society.

Sadly most of those fans, both then and now, seem to have been happy to have been able to make a penny in the pound for themselves rather than have donated it to those less fortunate than them but in dire need of it.

Shame on them and their sickening greed.

Coming from roughly the same area as Tashyboy I am sure you can guess my views on Mrs Thatch. Yes I was not directly effected as Tashyboy was, but I saw the despair and hopelessness she brought on many areas near where I grew up. Which you could argue she just left to rot. And creating a divided society is one of the by products you will always get with a conservative government as most of their policies will lead to this. There was even a comment the other day by the leader of Ofsted (who by no means are a left leading organisation) that their current obsessions with academies in education is leading to a 2 tier education system where, 'surprise surprise' the best will get better and attract the best teachers and the worst ones will get worse. And I am sure you can guess roughly what MPs are in the areas where the better school are and which MPs are where the ones that are struggling are . Just one example.

Also I'd say that one of the problems with golf clubs now is that they are no longer aspiration for a lot of people. Although some golf clubs seem to think they are. But that's another thread.

 

[chrisd]

Is the correct answer. 😁

The People that loved her were the people that got something out of her. They were the winners.
The people that hated her where the ones that came from split families due to her policies. That was me.
The events and memories that unfolded at Orgreave Coke plant will stay with for the rest of my life. Put the antics of the picket lines on top of that and they were definately not good days. My thoughts on her are and always will be quite clear.
Do take on board that Labour were dire as opposition, and Mr Corbyn is a throwback to those days. But the thread is about Missis T.

I can quite understand how you resent her but do you not blame Scargill and the other union leaders who forced her hand at the time? I agree that her closing many of the pits was revenge and quite wrong but the country was been ruined by the unions at that time

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Is the correct answer. 😁

The People that loved her were the people that got something out of her. They were the winners.
The people that hated her where the ones that came from split families due to her policies. That was me.
The events and memories that unfolded at Orgreave Coke plant will stay with for the rest of my life. Put the antics of the picket lines on top of that and they were definately not good days. My thoughts on her are and always will be quite clear.
Do take on board that Labour were dire as opposition, and Mr Corbyn is a throwback to those days. But the thread is about Missis T.

She existed because of the antics of the unions. Many self employed people and small business owners went burst due to Labour Government policies that were doing unsustainable pay deals to nationalised industries like rail, steel and coal.

 

[Tashyboy]

She existed because of the antics of the unions. Many self employed people and small business owners went burst due to Labour Government policies that were doing unsustainable pay deals to nationalised industries like rail, steel and coal.

I will try and answer two posts in one and then go and get wet in the golf.

Scargill, he is another one that when his name is mentioned my bladder shall remain full if he is on fire, along with other lesser known Union men who used the strike for there own personal means, included in that that is financial gains. Google Neil Greatrex and Mick Stevens who have robbed miners funds of hundreds of thousands of pounds.
Did you know Scargill wanted to buy the penthouse suite he was living in free of charge which was owned by the Union. He wanted to invoke a rule brought in by non other than Thatcher. It went to court and he lost the case. The greedy **** took his own Union to court.
Do not for one minute think that all miner supported Scargill or the breakaway Union the UDM. Ten of thousands of miners were between a rock and a hard place re Scargill and Thatcher. bullying and violence were rife from both the police ( mainly the Metropolitan) and pickets towards innocent miners who just wanted to work.
The miners who had there heads kicked in did not support Scargill

Re small companies going bust, don't know if they did so unlike some on this forum I won't argue against that point, But and using that point alone. Thatcher shut pit after pit after pit that was making tens of millions of pounds for the tax payer every year without subsidys. That is what turned a lot of miners against Thatcher. Some believed that what she was doing in shutting down loss making pits was correct but when there profit making pits were shut that's when a lot of miners turned against her.
Went to a photo exhibition launch at Mansfield Museum Friday night, it is on for a good month or so. Chris Upton photography ( check out his site ) took a load of photos and I was involved in helping him. Mark Spencer Tory MP for Newark and Sherwood was there to help launch it. Knob. He said we must not forget that having our own energy helped us win two world wars. Yeah right oh Mark. His words stuck in the throat of every miner there.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

...that she is a root cause of the eventual break up of the Union.

Because hard as though Cameron and Osborne are trying, they will struggle to achieve the level of love felt towards Thatcher in Scotland.