Thatcher, history will show...

Interesting to read the very many sad stories about the 80s and they all resonate with me and have my sympathy. The heartlessness was simply disgusting.

However we've gone off on an anecdotal route and I'd like to try and bring this back specifically to Thatcher herself.

Towards the end of her 'reign' she seemed to have lost all grip on reality and was totally deluded and power-drunk. I still wince when she famously used the Royal "we" in respect of the birth of one of her grandchildren.

My view was that she'd completely lost the plot and believed herself to be invincible. I was never so happy when here erstwhile loyal colleagues finally had had enough and metaphorically knifed her in the back. My opinion was that collectively the worms had turned and not before time.

She had lost all touch with reality and really did need to be removed from her delusional dictatorship.

She was an odious person who did nothing but create an atmosphere of misery and hate in all but those who benefitted from her disgraceful pandering to the all holy markets, the aspirant rich and the already obscenely well-off.
 
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ColchesterFC said:
Was it that there weren't any jobs out there or that as is happening now people refusing to take jobs that they considered beneath them?

If you want to work then it is fairly easy to find a job. When I was made redundant I took a job in a call centre because I had to earn money to pay the bills. I could just have easily ended up working in a supermarket or anywhere else, but equally I could have decided that as I have a degree and other work related qualifications I could have sat on my backside and complained that there was no work out there for me.

There are jobs out there for people that want to work but it is far easy for them to whine and complain that they have lost their job and it's all the goverment's fault. It might not be your dream job or related to what you were doing before but it pays the bills and keeps food on the table and in my book that's the important thing.
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When there are 4 million unemployed, there arent enough jobs.

Not exactly rocket science is it, and why do you think Newcastle's, Glasgow's, Liverpool's populations were declining - because tens 0f thousands were going south to get some of them.

Some of you just dont have a clue do you, or are just massive apologists.
 
Liverbirdie said:
When there are 4 million unemployed, there arent enough jobs.

Not exactly rocket science is it, and why do you think Newcastle's, Glasgow's, Liverpool's populations were declining - because tens 0f thousands were going south to get some of them.

Some of you just dont have a clue do you, or are just massive apologists.
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We currently have approximately 1.8 million people in this country classed as unemployed (sourced from BBC news for Q3 2015, most recent figures I could find). Each week hundreds of thousands of jobs are advertised and remain unfilled - approx 1/2 million current job vacancies in the UK. I'm not suggesting that for every one of those 1.8 million there is a job available as some will be unsuitable or they will be under qualified but there is work out there if you can be bothered to look.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting that I am an apologist for but it seems from your post that you don't have a clue and are a massive apologist for people that are too lazy to get their backsides off their sofa and go out and find work. Oh boo hoo did some people from Liverpool, Newcastle and Glasgow have to move to find work? Well guess what, sometimes in life you have to make a sacrifice to achieve something. I've moved from Norfolk to Scotland, back to Norfolk, then to Suffolk, on to London and then back to Suffolk because that's where the work was.
 
ColchesterFC said:
We currently have approximately 1.8 million people in this country classed as unemployed (sourced from BBC news for Q3 2015, most recent figures I could find). Each week hundreds of thousands of jobs are advertised and remain unfilled - approx 1/2 million current job vacancies in the UK. I'm not suggesting that for every one of those 1.8 million there is a job available as some will be unsuitable or they will be under qualified but there is work out there if you can be bothered to look.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting that I am an apologist for but it seems from your post that you don't have a clue and are a massive apologist for people that are too lazy to get their backsides off their sofa and go out and find work. Oh boo hoo did some people from Liverpool, Newcastle and Glasgow have to move to find work? Well guess what, sometimes in life you have to make a sacrifice to achieve something. I've moved from Norfolk to Scotland, back to Norfolk, then to Suffolk, on to London and then back to Suffolk because that's where the work was.
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When you go for a job in an ice cream factory when your 16, and 1,000 people are queued up around the block for one position, there arent enough jobs.

It was ok in the south, and not in the north and midlands who suffered most, so get out of your "I'm alright jack" bubble and open your eyes to what was done at the time.

Germany had been the losers in WW2, and could afford to keep unemployment at bay far better than us in the 80's WITH GOVERNMENT HELP, something that we didnt do. The south did very well out of it, and that is why you;ll see most southerners in favour of her, and most northerners not.

It only takes 7 million to vote someone in, and there was enough from down there to keep her in.
 
Good to see you back phil and I am with you on this. It s easy to say if you want work then you will find it, but.

Rufford pit shuts 1,500 men lose there jobs, 1 1/2 miles away
Blidworth pit shuts 1,500 men lose there jobs, 2 miles from Rufford
Clipstone shuts 1,500 men lose there jobs, 1 mile from Clipstone
Mansfield Colliery close 1,200 men lose there jobs, 1 mile from Mansfield
Sherwood Colliery close 1,500 men lose there jobs, 3 miles from Sherwood
sutton colliery closes, as does anneslly, Bentink, Gedling, Cotgrave, ollerton, bilsthorpe, Harworth etc etc etc.
stick on top of that all the specialist companies that supplied the mining industry and you are talking about a serious amount of people made unemployed. Plus me mum who worked in the canteen 😁
And that is just the Notts pits
Now don't get me wrong Toys r us don't employ 30,000 men on nights.

Cannot talk about Yorksire or the rest of the mining communities from Kent to Scotland,but villages as we called them then (now communities) were savaged with no promise of investment materialising in some.

Re setting up your own business, yes I will agree with that as some of my good friends inc my brother ( who escaped a roof fall in which three of his best pals were killed at Bilsthorpe) did this and did very well, but some are cut out for Business and most were not.

Not to sure that if you want work you will find it, applies to all. A company laying off half a dozen? Them six have more chance of finding work than those that have just been finished at say Redcar. Simply because of numbers and also because there are not the vacancies in and around Redcar.

oh ah ave just remembered , Mark spencer MP has asked the Tory government for more money for training, coz the guys at Redcar have been offered more than the miners. Eh six months after the pit officially shut he wants more money. Does he think people have sat on there backsides for six months since being made redundant. these are the people in power who think there are helping us. Lord above.

Furthermore, I believe another legacy of Thathcher is the creation of " benefit culture". Yes there has always been unemployment, but you survived on unemployment benefit in pre Thatchers era. Since then some people have no intention of working because Thatchers Generation have taught the next generation ( there kids ) you can more than get by on benefits.

That last sentance does not apply to everyone on benefits, as they do have a part in our society, but a generation of people take benefits as granted.
 
Tashyboy said:
Good to see you back phil and I am with you on this. It s easy to say if you want work then you will find it, but.

Rufford pit shuts 1,500 men lose there jobs, 1 1/2 miles away
Blidworth pit shuts 1,500 men lose there jobs, 2 miles from Rufford
Clipstone shuts 1,500 men lose there jobs, 1 mile from Clipstone
Mansfield Colliery close 1,200 men lose there jobs, 1 mile from Mansfield
Sherwood Colliery close 1,500 men lose there jobs, 3 miles from Sherwood
sutton colliery closes, as does anneslly, Bentink, Gedling, Cotgrave, ollerton, bilsthorpe, Harworth etc etc etc.
stick on top of that all the specialist companies that supplied the mining industry and you are talking about a serious amount of people made unemployed. Plus me mum who worked in the canteen 
And that is just the Notts pits
Now don't get me wrong Toys r us don't employ 30,000 men on nights.

Cannot talk about Yorksire or the rest of the mining communities from Kent to Scotland,but villages as we called them then (now communities) were savaged with no promise of investment materialising in some.

Re setting up your own business, yes I will agree with that as some of my good friends inc my brother ( who escaped a roof fall in which three of his best pals were killed at Bilsthorpe) did this and did very well, but some are cut out for Business and most were not.

Not to sure that if you want work you will find it, applies to all. A company laying off half a dozen? Them six have more chance of finding work than those that have just been finished at say Redcar. Simply because of numbers and also because there are not the vacancies in and around Redcar.

oh ah ave just remembered , Mark spencer MP has asked the Tory government for more money for training, coz the guys at Redcar have been offered more than the miners. Eh six months after the pit officially shut he wants more money. Does he think people have sat on there backsides for six months since being made redundant. these are the people in power who think there are helping us. Lord above.

Furthermore, I believe another legacy of Thathcher is the creation of " benefit culture". Yes there has always been unemployment, but you survived on unemployment benefit in pre Thatchers era. Since then some people have no intention of working because Thatchers Generation have taught the next generation ( there kids ) you can more than get by on benefits.

That last sentance does not apply to everyone on benefits, as they do have a part in our society, but a generation of people take benefits as granted.
Click to expand...

According to some, all them villages should have got on their collective bikes and went south to the land of milk and honey, instead of staying in a village that I'm sure they (and their friends and families) had lived in for 5 generations or more.......

Probably the same people who are saying that Syrians should stay were they are.:thup:
 
Was thinking about this earlier today, and a couple of terms from that era came to mind.

"Closed shop," and "job demarcation."

Thank God we no longer have a closed shop whereby the Unions used to dictate who could work for a company based on whether or not they were in the union - always thought it was the mgt that should decide who is employed.

Job demarcation was taken to far back in the 70's and early 80's. Quite rightly you wouldn't want a plumber doing brain surgery, but why can't a joiner sweep up his own mess rather than wait for the cleaner to turn up.

Another change, and I'm sure many will remember the news item, was proper voting for strike action. The news footage of union reps outside the gates of British Leyland calling for a show of hands for strike action, and the show clearly not being in favour of strike action but the union rep still saying the vote was in favour of striking - and off down the pub they went.

Like any PM, they all get some things right and some things wrong. Depending on your own political persuasion you will either think they were great or not. For PM's of that era I think Thatcher did some good things. However, she only had one good term and was failing badly in the second one until the Argies kicked off. That got her a 3rd term but she continued to fail badly in the opinion polls, and within the party, once the jingoism after the Falklands abated.
 
Being in the military I'm unsure on strike procedures but have certainly witnessed the effect

When the firemen went on strike we had to man the stations with the great green goddesses. I have my own personal opinion in regards their actions and their reasons for doing so

Now also seen civil service go on strike and had to also do their jobs ( as well as my own ) when they go on strike - have also seen the effects of other strikes

Strikes always seem IMO to come down to people wanting more or not liking when things were taken away

it always seemed to stem from a minority and everyone else jumping along

Seen teachers go along with strikes just to get a day off , same with civil servants - it used to make my blood boil watching fireman sitting outside fire stations whilst we worked days and days in a row covering them and for less money that they already got paid

It always seems very easy for some to go on strike and it seems to happen really quickly and seems to happen with no care to the rest of the country that they may effect - people take jobs knowing what is expected of them and sometimes those conditions needed to change - I know in ranting here but it's always something that has really griped me - I have seen my job and conditions change so many times and I couldn't do a thing about it and just got on with thankful that j was still working and having pride in my job.

If the police and military went of strike would the teachers , fireman , civil servants or tube drivers step and fill the role - nope ( well maybe if they could have more money )

I'm not sure if there has ever been a strike I have agreed with - maybe the one where nurses went on strike about working conditions

Sorry for the rant
 
What a lot forget about that serve or have served in the Military is that like other jobs we made a choice of career and took the rough with smooth,
We in the Military get/got paid 7 days a week, 365 days a year,
I would never sit in judgement of those that strike as I have never faced their pay and conditions, but I will think about them this weekend when I am on full pay on the Golf Course and then at a party.
 
Never agreed with people who strike there are other channels to resolve differences without inflicting pain on others. Everyone has crap to deal with it is part of life
 
Mrs Thatcher would have been delighted with the BBC choice of panelists on last night's Question Time.
I suppose 4-1 is their take on London's political make up.
To them it would seem balanced.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Being in the military I'm unsure on strike procedures but have certainly witnessed the effect

When the firemen went on strike we had to man the stations with the great green goddesses. I have my own personal opinion in regards their actions and their reasons for doing so

Now also seen civil service go on strike and had to also do their jobs ( as well as my own ) when they go on strike - have also seen the effects of other strikes

Strikes always seem IMO to come down to people wanting more or not liking when things were taken away

it always seemed to stem from a minority and everyone else jumping along

Seen teachers go along with strikes just to get a day off , same with civil servants - it used to make my blood boil watching fireman sitting outside fire stations whilst we worked days and days in a row covering them and for less money that they already got paid

It always seems very easy for some to go on strike and it seems to happen really quickly and seems to happen with no care to the rest of the country that they may effect - people take jobs knowing what is expected of them and sometimes those conditions needed to change - I know in ranting here but it's always something that has really griped me - I have seen my job and conditions change so many times and I couldn't do a thing about it and just got on with thankful that j was still working and having pride in my job.

If the police and military went of strike would the teachers , fireman , civil servants or tube drivers step and fill the role - nope ( well maybe if they could have more money )

I'm not sure if there has ever been a strike I have agreed with - maybe the one where nurses went on strike about working conditions

Sorry for the rant
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I don't know, the Bake Off star makes a very good point. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35320139
 
I don't think that there is anyone who works, believes that they would prefer strike action. Strike action is and should be used as a last resort.
if we did not have strike action, four year old boys would still be working down the pit (well they would if there was any open), and climbing up chimneys.
Today's terms and working conditions have been fought for generations by my parents and there parents. It may seem a bit nostalgic saying that but if they had not chipped away over the years improving said conditions through mediation by unions and sometimes strike action. Then issues like Zero hour contracts and the like would be more common place.
I am sure that Junior doctors would prefer not to strike, but through talking to there employers ( the government ) they feel they are getting no where.
There are many problems that Joe public Feels is wrong in the NHS. junior Doctors terms and conditions is not one of them. So why change? The government says it will improve services, the Drs says it won't. The Drs say it is about saving money and changing working hours, the government say it is not. After all the consultation or lack of, the Junior doctors feel they have no other option but to strike.
 
Tashyboy said:
I don't think that there is anyone who works, believes that they would prefer strike action. Strike action is and should be used as a last resort.
if we did not have strike action, four year old boys would still be working down the pit (well they would if there was any open), and climbing up chimneys.
Today's terms and working conditions have been fought for generations by my parents and there parents. It may seem a bit nostalgic saying that but if they had not chipped away over the years improving said conditions through mediation by unions and sometimes strike action. Then issues like Zero hour contracts and the like would be more common place.
I am sure that Junior doctors would prefer not to strike, but through talking to there employers ( the government ) they feel they are getting no where.
There are many problems that Joe public Feels is wrong in the NHS. junior Doctors terms and conditions is not one of them. So why change? The government says it will improve services, the Drs says it won't. The Drs say it is about saving money and changing working hours, the government say it is not. After all the consultation or lack of, the Junior doctors feel they have no other option but to strike.
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Well said Tashyboy...

A big thumbs up from me :thup:...
 
Del_Boy said:
Never agreed with people who strike there are other channels to resolve differences without inflicting pain on others. Everyone has crap to deal with it is part of life
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There are many rights that workers now enjoy that have been gained through strike action. Yes some people just do it to be deliberately awkward or are on a power trip, but to say that people should never strike is ignoring, and probably a bit insulting, to courageous workers in the past that have fought for rights many now have.
 
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