Swing theory - advice needed.

[SugarPenguin]

So recently I have been playing fairly well. Nothing to special but my ball striking is good and my consistency has been as good as it has ever been. I played golf for from the age of 12-16 and got to a 14 handicap. I started again at Christmas last year at the age of 24 and want to get to single figures by 30.

To improve I recently had a couple of lessons and basically what I learnt was that I have a very weak grip and I swing very much on the inside and roll my wrists through Impact to counter this and hit the ball very very very high as a result. I know this and as such have catered for it and I am improving still using my own style.

Now my instructor is trying to get me to swing on the correct plane and improve my impact position. Iv gone from shooting 9-13 over for the last 8 weeks to mid 20's as a result in the last 2 times iv played. Snce I hit the ball a good distance and high I'm losing balls at a disturbing rate and now pull everything with my stronger grip and steeper plane.

im new to lessons. I know my swing isn't perfect but it has been working and I am improving. My swing isn't bad. It's not highly unique or incorrect by anything lengths - just not Adam Scott.

However- should I start changing it to a more regular swing and working on what I am told in lessons?
Is this necessary for me to improve and get to a higher standard - albeit a slower and much more painful process?

would be good to hear your thoughts. Thanks.

 

[the_coach]

assuming the Pro is trying to change the swing motion to improve the impact position to rely less on 'timing' the hands & arms through the ball

& by using the hip clearance & body rotation to square the face at impact which also would give a more stable 3D swing path - this would give you a 'slower rate' of face angle closure so a far more stable release patten - to a more stable common ball direction & flight (traj would be more penetrating likely distance would improve as a by-product - but accuracy would definitely improve if you can make the change

hands & arms as you describe the 'old' action with a swing path more degrees aways from neutral gives a 'faster rate of closure' through impact & so heavily relies on timing as the face angle is changing far quicker over a shorter distance coming into the impact area

given your age & assuming you don't have any problems 'turning' upper body & nothing much wrong with the hip sockets - given your goal in the game

my take would be to go with the pro - practice but you gotta monitor that practice with some rigor through vid so you can see whats going down - don't rely on feel practice alone it won't work so well & would certainly make progress slower

when you're trying to change stuff it's a ways impossible to change without a visual reference & trying to change with the majority of the practice still done hitting balls at normal speed

 

[t0m]

I think it all depends. If you want to improve listening and changing you swing is the way forward if you only go for the odd nock I wouldn't change

 

[HomerJSimpson]

It's common to go backwards in terms of scores after a lesson as you attempt to make the changes. I tend to go to the range for a session or two to work these in before playing. Try not to think too much about the swing as you play (easier said than done) but if you aren't happy with how things are progressing go back and chat with the pro about what he is doing and the reasons behind it

 

[SugarPenguin]

thanks for the advice guys.
I thought as much.

@Coach that is a fantastic description of everything. Spot on.

 

[RyanAcer]

SugarPenguin.

You have exactly the same issues I had this spring. Took four lessons over the course of two months, spent hours and hours on the range working on the changes. I had a very inside delivery to the ball (about 5 or 6 degrees) and my exit path was to the right and then I had a very pronounced flipping of the hands over. This gave me a push draw but I was very consistent with it as far as direction, I aimed up the right side of the fairway and almost never went right of that point. If the ball didn't draw it was ok it still ended up on the right side. I never faded or slice it.

The problem was with a lot of opening and closing of the club face during the swing, timing was essential. My miss was closing the club face too fast and "leading" with the toe of the club. An inside delivery with a toe first contact is a recipe for some nasty hooks. It was all the toe shots that finally convinced me to get some lessons and see if I couldn't fix some of my swing flaws. I'll also add that when your coming from the inside and exiting to the right, there is a 99% chance you're not rotating enough through impact, and I was no exception.

The mantra of my lessons was to quiet the hands and "go left", so I started being able to leave the face open at impact and go left. Like most pro's he wanted to see me do the opposite of my problem, which for me was to come over the top and exiting hard left ....can you say SLICE!!! My first few rounds after I started working on this were quite horrible for me, I felt totally lost in my swing and shot a bunch of rounds in the low 90's (I'm a 7.3 handicap).

I spent a month trying to get rid of draws and hooks, then a month coming over the top and slicing it badly, its only in the last few weeks that I really figured where the middle ground was. Take some advice from me, although your pro might want to see if you can slice it (too prove you can do the opposite) take care not to hone this into your swing, because then you've just substituted one problem for another.

This was the key for me: Don't think about swinging left, just think about turning your hips hard left before impact. This will feel strange at first because your hands were doing the job that your body should have been doing all along. Its your body's job to close the clubface, not your hands. You'll feel wide open at impact but believe me your not. You want your misses to be pushed, instead of pulled, this is how you'll know that you're quieting the flip of your hands.

And this was the biggest key, the thing that made it all work (my pro did not notice this, or talk to me about this, if I had more of a one-plane swing this probably would not have been much of an issue, but I've always had higher hands at the top, not as high as Bubba or Nicklaus, but definitely higher than a one-planer, I had to figure this out for myself) it was the action and placement of my right elbow through impact. It should feel like its tucked in, pressed against your right side and in front of you at impact. Stand in the address position, now pretend like you are taking a flat stone and you are going to skip it on water. To do this you'll probably turn away then turn forward and throw the stone underhanded and bent over a bit. Notice how open your hips would be when you let go of the stone, and notice the position of your right arm. This is almost exactly the sensation you should have at impact.

That was a bit long winded, but I hope that helps.

 

[SugarPenguin]

SugarPenguin.

You have exactly the same issues I had this spring. Took four lessons over the course of two months, spent hours and hours on the range working on the changes. I had a very inside delivery to the ball (about 5 or 6 degrees) and my exit path was to the right and then I had a very pronounced flipping of the hands over. This gave me a push draw but I was very consistent with it as far as direction, I aimed up the right side of the fairway and almost never went right of that point. If the ball didn't draw it was ok it still ended up on the right side. I never faded or slice it.

The problem was with a lot of opening and closing of the club face during the swing, timing was essential. My miss was closing the club face too fast and "leading" with the toe of the club. An inside delivery with a toe first contact is a recipe for some nasty hooks. It was all the toe shots that finally convinced me to get some lessons and see if I couldn't fix some of my swing flaws. I'll also add that when your coming from the inside and exiting to the right, there is a 99% chance you're not rotating enough through impact, and I was no exception.

The mantra of my lessons was to quiet the hands and "go left", so I started being able to leave the face open at impact and go left. Like most pro's he wanted to see me do the opposite of my problem, which for me was to come over the top and exiting hard left ....can you say SLICE!!! My first few rounds after I started working on this were quite horrible for me, I felt totally lost in my swing and shot a bunch of rounds in the low 90's (I'm a 7.3 handicap).

I spent a month trying to get rid of draws and hooks, then a month coming over the top and slicing it badly, its only in the last few weeks that I really figured where the middle ground was. Take some advice from me, although your pro might want to see if you can slice it (too prove you can do the opposite) take care not to hone this into your swing, because then you've just substituted one problem for another.

This was the key for me: Don't think about swinging left, just think about turning your hips hard left before impact. This will feel strange at first because your hands were doing the job that your body should have been doing all along. Its your body's job to close the clubface, not your hands. You'll feel wide open at impact but believe me your not. You want your misses to be pushed, instead of pulled, this is how you'll know that you're quieting the flip of your hands.

And this was the biggest key, the thing that made it all work (my pro did not notice this, or talk to me about this, if I had more of a one-plane swing this probably would not have been much of an issue, but I've always had higher hands at the top, not as high as Bubba or Nicklaus, but definitely higher than a one-planer, I had to figure this out for myself) it was the action and placement of my right elbow through impact. It should feel like its tucked in, pressed against your right side and in front of you at impact. Stand in the address position, now pretend like you are taking a flat stone and you are going to skip it on water. To do this you'll probably turn away then turn forward and throw the stone underhanded and bent over a bit. Notice how open your hips would be when you let go of the stone, and notice the position of your right arm. This is almost exactly the sensation you should have at impact.

That was a bit long winded, but I hope that helps.

Thanks Ryan will give that a go. I have stopped turning my hands over (which has cured the pull with my new swing- but now I have the slice as you mentioned).
Played again today shout about 20 over. Didn't hit a SINGLE Green in regulation. Not one.
So frustrating.

 

[delc]

I had a couple of lessons earlier this year where the pro told me I was standing too far away from the ball at address (but not necessarily after I hit it!) and my swing plane was too flat. This was probably because I been through a patch of shanking the ball with my irons. My bad shots were either fat or snap hooks. Standing taller and closer to the ball with a more upright swing took a bit of getting used to and my scores suffered for a while, but I am glad I persevered with this because my game has become much more consistent and I am regularly playing to my handicap again, rather than once in a blue moon! I've even had a small cut and won lots of vouchers in Seniors comps lately. Also came 3rd in our Seniors Scratch Championship.

 

[SugarPenguin]

Not bad Delc.
Off to the range tonight see work on my new swing.... Cant say im looking forward to it