Swing Speed - Holy Cow!

[USER1999]

Thing is though, if you start the game at 40, you aren't going to reach the highest level. You are up against guys who have been swinging it since they were kids.

Now if you start as a kid, you are all supple, and you can have a fast and loose swing. As you get older, you can keep this swing (to a point, Tiger still had to change his), as you have already stretched all your muscles, and build strength and support where you need it.

If you start at 40, you are going to end up in hospital if you are trying to achieve tour levels of club head speed.

 

[surefire]

What am I supposed to be looking at there? They pretty much all seem to be able to crank it up to the 116mph mark when they want to which will put it out to the 300yrd line (or beyond) in the right conditions. Even Luke Donald averages something like 278yds which is MASSIVE compared to most club golfers averages (and with 112mph swing he's considered a 'shorty').

I know these guys are faster than the average club golfer, but that wasn't my point.

My point was you don't have to be a bomber to compete. If you take 116mph as your mark, approx 100 of the 185 on the list get equal to or above this as their MAX speed. Thats just over 50%.

Looking at average speeds, Donald ranks 99 out of 185, again thats just slightly below the middle. If he is a 'shorty' what are the guys below him? 'Micro' hitters?
Donald certainly is a short hitter compared to the guys the commentators and TV cameras like to focus on, but in reality, he is right in the middle.

In fact, I would be interested to see the correlation, between driving distance, driving accuracy and position on the money list, so I might see if I can pool this together.

Another thing you're missing is that the driving distance stats are AVERAGE, that means for every duffed drive you have to hit some pretty massive ones to bring your average back up again. Swinging fast is the primary objective to playing the modern game at the highest level. People even laugh about Faldo now as he was a tiny hitter for his size, even with the old technology.

I'm not convinced I was missing anything. The table I linked to, had average, max and min swingspeeds.

116mph was pretty much in the middle of the MAX swingspeeds.

Also to have an average, you don't have to hit lots of big drives to make up for the duffs, you can just consistently hit 'normal' drives. Unless the stats include "standard deviation of driving distance" or show every recorded drive, we have no way of knowing which of those is the case.

I assume the people laughing at Faldo have more majors than him, and so laugh at the folly of his short and accurate method of playing?

 

[surefire]

To add to my post above, I also think swingspeed is a more useful stat than driving distance.

Swingspeed is generally more consistent regardless of conditions, and allows for easier comparision between players.

Driving distance is affected by so many variables, temperature, wind, elevation, slope, speed of fairway etc...

You can compare your swingspeed to a tour pro, but you can't fairly compare distance unless both of you are playing the same course in the same conditions.

 

[fundy]

how can swingspeed be a better stat than distance, it ignores the quality of strike

 

[timgolfy]

Yes - very good point. That was one of my main reasons for buying the device - because the figures are objective.

I use a couple of different ranges - one of which is only 210 yards long with a massive fence. Both use old "90" range balls. Telling exactly how far you hit is a difficult and a meaningless comparison, as many of the PGA competitions are played warm atmospheres and long hard fairways. Clubhead speed is a much fairer comparison.

Interestingly, in 2010 Ernie Els averaged 113mph swing speed with a carry distance of 270.

With regard to accuracy, paradoxically the bigger the drive the MORE accurate it needs to be.

 

[timgolfy]

how can swingspeed be a better stat than distance, it ignores the quality of strike

I think this is the exact point. I reckon most people don't get above 90, let alone to 113. Having a good quality ball strike at 90 won't get a 290 yard drive.

 

[surefire]

how can swingspeed be a better stat than distance, it ignores the quality of strike

Well, I agree to an extent, and I was referring to the sets of stats that had bene mentioned earlier, but I do think swingspeed is a better comparison, than distance.

I think initial ballspeed would be an even better measurement, although mildly affected by outside factors.

You can't compare distance directly unless you can remove all the outside variables that have an influence.

 

[fundy]

Agree that ball speed definitely a better indicator to compare, though again you could argue it doesnt take into account launch angle and spin (getting too picky now?)

 

[surefire]

Agree that ball speed definitely a better indicator to compare, though again you could argue it doesnt take into account launch angle and spin (getting too picky now?)

Exactly, and thats why it's so hard to produce comparisons.

My thinking with swingspeed as a comparison, is that it at least shows the potential you have to hit the ball far, if you can get everything else right.

 

[surefire]

Yes - very good point. That was one of my main reasons for buying the device - because the figures are objective.

What you must also be careful of is the accuracy of your radar Vs Trackman (for example). Otherwise you still don't have a proper comparison.

What you do have though is a relative point, which allows you to measure your progress.

 

[NWJocko]

how can swingspeed be a better stat than distance, it ignores the quality of strike

I think this is the exact point. I reckon most people don't get above 90, let alone to 113. Having a good quality ball strike at 90 won't get a 290 yard drive.

Not read all of this as it is a familiar argument however why are you hell bent on achieving a 290 yard drive? Is it an ego thing or is the rest of ur game at a good level where am extra 20-30 yards will make the difference?

 

[timgolfy]

It's ego.
And I also believe it's the fastest way to scratch, since hitting a PW onto the green is a lot easier than hitting a 5 iron onto it.

 

[John_Findlay]

Just put the ball where you mean to. 200 yards or 250 yards. It'll be more fun either way. And you'll be Cat 1 if you can do it most of the time. Lukey Boy has the right idea. He's some machine.

 

[fundy]

from someone whos been there Tim, believe me it isnt, I can still get it out there, but am a very long way from scratch partly due to acuracy but moreso due to a completely deficient short game

 

[bobmac]

Ok, if you want to hit it long and straight, here's what you have to do.
You have to have good swing speed
You have to have a good angle of attack/launch angle
You have to swing it in the right direction
You have to hit the sweet spot
You have to point the clubface in the right direction.

These are the 5 ball flight laws.
Do yourself a favour and read up on them and then try and increase your distance.

An old teacher I once knew told me "if you want to hit it further, hit it better"

 

[NWJocko]

It's ego.
And I also believe it's the fastest way to scratch, since hitting a PW onto the green is a lot easier than hitting a 5 iron onto it.

Only if u dont practice ur iron play!

If ur not reliably hitting any iron where you want to you'll never get to scratch therefore, to a degree, it's irrelevant what club you're hitting into the green. From what i see with scratch players they're competent with every club rather than only using driver wedge and putter.

 

[timgolfy]

1. You have to have good swing speed
2. You have to have a good angle of attack/launch angle
3. You have to swing it in the right direction
4. You have to hit the sweet spot
5. You have to point the clubface in the right direction.

Agreed. So why do most people never practice #1? At some point you have to practice it and train your body to do it.

 

[NWJocko]

1. You have to have good swing speed
2. You have to have a good angle of attack/launch angle
3. You have to swing it in the right direction
4. You have to hit the sweet spot
5. You have to point the clubface in the right direction.

Agreed. So why do most people never practice #1? At some point you have to practice it and train your body to do it.

Youre just going round in circles my man....

Why not just practice ur longer irons?

If you want to swing out your boots every time to waggle your todger at the driving range bash on, nobodys stopping you.

Equally other people have different ideas of improving their golf and do it their way.

The best phrase ive picked up from here is "its not how, its how many". There are umpteen ways of getting the ball in the hole, as long ss it works who's to criticise?

 

[USER1999]

So why do most people never practice #1? At some point you have to practice it and train your body to do it.

Any one I have ever seen 'practicing' swinging fast has looked a total pillock.

Any idea of a golf swing has gone, and there is a close resemblance to a strimmer. Oddly, the ball rearely goes any further, and often a great deal less.

Given the limited practice time available for those of us who work, the time is better spent on hitting the ball better. It will have a much quicker pay off in terms of handicap.

 

[bobmac]

1. You have to have good swing speed
2. You have to have a good angle of attack/launch angle
3. You have to swing it in the right direction
4. You have to hit the sweet spot
5. You have to point the clubface in the right direction.

Agreed. So why do most people never practice #1? At some point you have to practice it and train your body to do it.

We're going round in circles

Just hit it as hard as you can, but no harder