Strong lofts

[Orikoru]

1. Is there anything now that cost the same as 20 years ago?
2. I got the same number of clubs as the last set. BUT I can hit the 4 iron much better & further than the old one
3. It's hardly irrelevant that Wilson sell a set of clubs for around half the price of similar Titleist.

I'm sure sets of clubs used to be like £400 and now they're £1000, that's a bit more over and above normal inflation.

And of course that's irrelevant, nobody was comparing the price of different brands? It has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. The topic is about how overly strong lofts are bad - across all brands. How can it be relevant that one brand costs less than another? Just like always? Hint: it's not.

 

[azazel]

My set goes:

10.5
15
20
22
25
28
32
36
41
46
50
54
58

Aside from the two clubs at 20 & 22 degrees, that's pretty evenly spaced in terms of lofts and, most importantly, distances. A full swing with each of those clubs covers distances of about 270 down to 70 yards at fairly regular gaps. Maybe I'm just "lucky" that I've got the right clubs - although the 22-46 clubs were fitted - but I can hit them all and know how far they go so I don't see much need to get hung up on what number is on the sole other than as an identifier.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I'm sure sets of clubs used to be like £400 and now they're £1000, that's a bit more over and above normal inflation.

And of course that's irrelevant, nobody was comparing the price of different brands? It has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. The topic is about how overly strong lofts are bad - across all brands. How can it be relevant that one brand costs less than another? Just like always? Hint: it's not.

There have been expensive clubs for a long time. Callaway Hawkeye irons were about £1k nearly 20 years ago. More if you wanted graphite shafts.

Materials are more expensive, and manufacturing processes have become more complex. Which will drive prices up. Then add marketing etc.

If you compare high, mid, and low range I doubt there is much of an increase beyond inflation.

 

[Boomy]

My set goes:

10.5
15
20
22
25
28
32
36
41
46
50
54
58

Aside from the two clubs at 20 & 22 degrees, that's pretty evenly spaced in terms of lofts and, most importantly, distances. A full swing with each of those clubs covers distances of about 270 down to 70 yards at fairly regular gaps. Maybe I'm just "lucky" that I've got the right clubs - although the 22-46 clubs were fitted - but I can hit them all and know how far they go so I don't see much need to get hung up on what number is on the sole other than as an identifier.

Which brand and model are the 22 - 46 please? I’m guessing 22 is a 3 iron and 46 the 9 iron?

 

[azazel]

Which brand and model are the 22 - 46 please? I’m guessing 22 is a 3 iron and 46 the 9 iron?

Mizuno MP20 HMB. 22 is a 4 iron and the 46 is the PW.

 

[harpo_72]

Mizuno MP20 HMB. 22 is a 4 iron and the 46 is the PW.

Hmb is high launching due to weighting .. great in the long irons. MMC is strong and has the weighting as well, I tried both and the HMB was not as long MMC required at least 2 gap wedges and was definitely bar bragging distance. If you want traditional stuff then mp is the one and blends nicely with HMB , I have 5,6 HMB and 6 has been bent to increase loft, then 7 to Pw in mp.. leaving wedges of 52, and 56 to cover 110 down .. yeah I don’t have bragging distance of a 200 yard 7 iron (MMC possibly ?) but my bag is nicely gapped.

 

[Maninblack4612]

I'm sure sets of clubs used to be like £400 and now they're £1000, that's a bit more over and above normal inflation.

And of course that's irrelevant, nobody was comparing the price of different brands? It has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. The topic is about how overly strong lofts are bad - across all brands. How can it be relevant that one brand costs less than another? Just like always? Hint: it's not.

I give in. ?

 

[Boomy]

Mizuno MP20 HMB. 22 is a 4 iron and the 46 is the PW.

Yeah that makes sense, my 4 hybrid is 22 and my PW is 48. I much prefer those kind of traditional lofts ??

I think the thing is nowadays distance is the big talking point so people like to brag that they hit their 7 iron 190 yards - of course you do because it’s a more forgiving 5 iron is disguise! It’s a shame loft criteria hadn’t been standardised to create boundaries and prevent fake news marketing. The way it’s going you’ll have a 22 degree PW in 5 years and then 6 other ‘wedges’ in the bag.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

You perhaps need to go and try a selection of new irons to see the differing levels of forgiveness. I tried half a dozen different ones last night and was really surprised at how some of them performed on off centre hits I.e a shot from nearer the toe still reached the target with the Callaway Epic Forged (it almost feels like cheating with that club) versus a ‘toey’ strike with the Titleist T100 got nowhere near.

Yes, well, you've done it and I haven't, I'll admit. But if a club sends a ball the furthest distance when hit in the sweet spot, Howe can it go the same distance when not?
Still, if I get the chance, I'll try like you say?

But I warn you, my wife won't forgive you if you cause me to buy new clubs?

 

[jmf1488]

I was listening to the no laying up podcast about 18 months ago and they were talking about the Callaway clubs and the lofts. The callaway epic flash irons had a ridiculous lofted pw but Callaway put it on the robotic swing machine and compared it to the Apex Pro PW and the loft difference was about 2 clubs but the distance difference when hit correctly at the same speed was only 2-3 yards.

I dont buy into this nonsense people say your 7 iron goes this far because its lofted like a 5. 80% of golfers according to the R&A dont get below 18 handicap. In my experience in playing with higher handicap players, a lot of them can hit an iron stronger than a 6. To say these same boys are now creaming yesterdays 5 irons because it now has a 7 on it is also ridiculous.

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

I was listening to the no laying up podcast about 18 months ago and they were talking about the Callaway clubs and the lofts. The callaway epic flash irons had a ridiculous lofted pw but Callaway put it on the robotic swing machine and compared it to the Apex Pro PW and the loft difference was about 2 clubs but the distance difference when hit correctly at the same speed was only 2-3 yards.

I dont buy into this nonsense people say your 7 iron goes this far because its lofted like a 5. 80% of golfers according to the R&A dont get below 18 handicap. In my experience in playing with higher handicap players, a lot of them can hit an iron stronger than a 6. To say these same boys are now creaming yesterdays 5 irons because it now has a 7 on it is also ridiculous.

There’s the famous old quote that “not even god can hit a 1 iron”. 1 irons were traditionally 14-16 degrees. I play with people every week using a 2 iron, which now has 17 degrees of loft due to strengthening, and guess what - everyone can hit them!!

This is not because it says 2 iron instead of 1 iron. It’s because the tech has made it more forgiving, and it creates more spin, because of the technology within it. Tungsten inserts, hollow clubs etc.

The effect with all irons is the same. Players don’t need the loft to help them get the ball airborne, due to the tech, and so you can strengthen the loft to add yardage without impacting the quality of the shot.

The only crime with strong lofts are those players who have jacked lofts, constantly asking everyone about their club selection. My mates do it all the time on par 3s, one friend has P790s with an extra 3/4inch length. His 7 iron is literally stronger than my 6 iron, and the length of my 5 iron, and he delofts the club to about a 4 iron loft during the swing, of course he’s going to be taking less club!! Yet they all look at me with question marks over my head when I announce I’m taking an extra 2 clubs than they are.

 

[Orikoru]

There’s the famous old quote that “not even god can hit a 1 iron”. 1 irons were traditionally 14-16 degrees. I play with people every week using a 2 iron, which now has 17 degrees of loft due to strengthening, and guess what - everyone can hit them!!

This is not because it says 2 iron instead of 1 iron. It’s because the tech has made it more forgiving, and it creates more spin, because of the technology within it. Tungsten inserts, hollow clubs etc.

The effect with all irons is the same. Players don’t need the loft to help them get the ball airborne, due to the tech, and so you can strengthen the loft to add yardage without impacting the quality of the shot.

The only crime with strong lofts are those players who have jacked lofts, constantly asking everyone about their club selection. My mates do it all the time on par 3s, one friend has P790s with an extra 3/4inch length. His 7 iron is literally stronger than my 6 iron, and the length of my 5 iron, and he delofts the club to about a 4 iron loft during the swing, of course he’s going to be taking less club!! Yet they all look at me with question marks over my head when I announce I’m taking an extra 2 clubs than they are.

1 irons simply don't exist anymore, because if they did they'd only have about 12° of loft. Would be some going to hit that.

 

[Imurg]

1 irons simply don't exist anymore, because if they did they'd only have about 12° of loft. Would be some going to hit that.

John Daly used to have a 0 iron
About 12 or 13 degrees....

 

[NoLayingUp]

The information put out by manufacturers and various publishers says that modern, strong lofted game improvement irons have been engineered to deliver the same launch angle as their weaker lofted predecessors. Phrases like, "towering trajectory," are common. Supposedly they are easier to launch high but go further.

I'm finding, with my new Ping G425s, that I can only achieve trajectories like my old, weakly lofted irons, if I really go after it. When I really go after it, I'm more likely to make a poor strike. The poor strikes are marginally better than the old clubs, but surely that's not the only intended benefit for an average golfer.

The net result is that I'm yet to be convinced that they are improving my game.

Anybody "improvers" experiencing similar or proper golfers willing to impart an opinion?

I use the Ping G410’s after switching from Cobra Forged CBs (Too good for my game when I bought them). I find the G410’s a lot easier to hit due to the club head size and the help of the cavity back.

The main points I’ve noticed are that the “feel” of when you strike one pure with forged clubs is just buttery smooth as opposed to the “clicky” nature of game improvement irons. Although it works the other way when “striking” one thin, the game improvement irons don’t absolutely rattle your hands to within a inch of their life (absolutely bonus on a cold day!)

You mentioned the lofts being a lot stronger, my cobra PW was 47 degree as opposed to my PING G410 at 44.5 degree, they offer even stronger lofts in the power spec models. I must say though, from my perspective I find the game improvement irons of today to look a lot more classy at address on the top line (as opposed to previous models), there is very little offset and for what they add to my game in terms consistency is quite dramatic. For me personally they work.

I fully understand sacrificing workability and feel comes at a price, just feel that the strike consistency matters to my game at the moment. I guess the bottom line is you have to find what exactly it is that works for you personally and what areas of your game you want to prioritise?

 

[Boomy]

I was listening to the no laying up podcast about 18 months ago and they were talking about the Callaway clubs and the lofts. The callaway epic flash irons had a ridiculous lofted pw but Callaway put it on the robotic swing machine and compared it to the Apex Pro PW and the loft difference was about 2 clubs but the distance difference when hit correctly at the same speed was only 2-3 yards.

I dont buy into this nonsense people say your 7 iron goes this far because its lofted like a 5. 80% of golfers according to the R&A dont get below 18 handicap. In my experience in playing with higher handicap players, a lot of them can hit an iron stronger than a 6. To say these same boys are now creaming yesterdays 5 irons because it now has a 7 on it is also ridiculous.

It’s not just the insanely stronger loft but also the forgiving design/tech in these new irons. You should buy into it, it’s not nonsense, it’s common sense and very basic science.

The only thing ridiculous is that statement. They are hitting lower lofts a lot further with more forgiving new tech, it’s really quite simple.

 

[Golfnut1957]

It’s not just the insanely stronger loft but also the forgiving design/tech in these new irons. You should buy into it, it’s not nonsense, it’s common sense and very basic science.

The only thing ridiculous is that statement. They are hitting lower lofts a lot further with more forgiving new tech, it’s really quite simple.

True. My sig currently shows that I carry two 4 irons. The Miura 4 iron has a top line you can shave with, 24 degrees of loft and requires total concentration and a very good strike to get the best out of it.

The Mizuno Hot Metal Pro has 20 degrees of loft, and it just goes straight and long, very long, without the same degree of effort required by the Miura.

Give me a Miura iron with 20 degrees of loft, and the only thing it would be good for really would be shaving.

 

[jmf1488]

It’s not just the insanely stronger loft but also the forgiving design/tech in these new irons. You should buy into it, it’s not nonsense, it’s common sense and very basic science.

The only thing ridiculous is that statement. They are hitting lower lofts a lot further with more forgiving new tech, it’s really quite simple.

If someone was to swing a club 75mph and strike the ball out of the middle of the face, it doesn't matter what the club is. One is not going to go 20 yards further than the other.

 

[RichA]

If someone was to swing a club 75mph and strike the ball out of the middle of the face, it doesn't matter what the club is. One is not going to go 20 yards further than the other.

Totally unscientific, but experience with my similarly lofted Mizuno blade 7i, Ping Eye 2 7i and Ping G425 8i (now that I've got used to it) suggest otherwise. The G425 is consistently at least 20 yards longer. Longer than I'd like, really. I wish I'd gone for the retro loft option.
I should add that I have no idea what my swing speed is.

 

[Boomy]

If someone was to swing a club 75mph and strike the ball out of the middle of the face, it doesn't matter what the club is. One is not going to go 20 yards further than the other.

I can’t help but notice that you’re a little bit out of touch with the reality of golf club tech. Way out.

 

[KenL]

Totally unscientific, but experience with my similarly lofted Mizuno blade 7i, Ping Eye 2 7i and Ping G425 8i (now that I've got used to it) suggest otherwise. The G425 is consistently at least 20 yards longer. Longer than I'd like, really. I wish I'd gone for the retro loft option.
I should add that I have no idea what my swing speed is.

You could probably get them adjusted.