Strong lofts

[patricks148]

I switched from mizuno blades in nov last year, its been a revelation for me, it gives far more confidence hitting 7 iron the distance I used to hit a 5, phylogically at least though there are more or less the same loft. I had MP4 before and hit them well, but the jpx go high and straight. Like today, didn't hit a good drive on 12, had 195 to the pin, 6 iron pin high, I would have struggled to hit the 4 iron that well to get there. Though I was sceptical to start with, the proof is in the pudding, for me anyway.

 

[The Dog.]

I am not an improver - might be the opposite. Whether I'm a proper golfer is debateable. Current HI is 3.4. Varied between 3.0 and 4.3 already this year.

Last three years I've been losing a bit of distance due to age.
Using Ping G10 3 and 4 iron and i10 5-PW and a Ping 52W. So I am due a change, I feel.
I used to hit my 3-iron over 200, now it is more like 195. The losses in distances decrease down the set to maybe only a yard or two with the PW and 52W.
Something with a stronger loft than my current 3-iron would not be a problem as I have no difficulty getting it up in the air.

What I would like to do now is go for a fitting with my agenda of,
"Give me 9 irons. I want the longest one to go 200 yards and the shortest one to go 100 yards with reasonably equal differences between clubs. I don't care what numbers and lofts you put on them. In fact I would prefer you just number them 1 to 9. I'm paying money for this fitting so if you can not do what I ask say now."

This is my idea of customer lead marketing.

Great post and I totally agree with you. The stamped numbers are irrelevant, how far does each of my clubs go, that’s the question I want answered although I’d want the top and bottom distances to be maybe 215 and 115 yards.

I’m in the same handicap category as you, currently 2.2 index. If it helps, I have Callaway Apex Pro irons and they’re undoubtedly the best clubs I’ve ever had.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Great post and I totally agree with you. The stamped numbers are irrelevant, how far does each of my clubs go, that’s the question I want answered although I’d want the top and bottom distances to be maybe 215 and 115 yards.

And the club that you would be hitting 215 could possibly be the exact same one that I would be hitting 200 and etc through the set.

 

[KenL]

I am finding that with my Ping G425 irons the longer irons are longer than the i25s they replaced. They are much easier to hit due to being more forgiving.

The 9 and wedges (p and u - gap wedge) are not much different so I don't have new gapping issues at the shorter end of the bag.

 

[The Dog.]

And the club that you would be hitting 215 could possibly be the exact same one that I would be hitting 200 and etc through the set.

Yes. That’s my 3 iron distance.

 

[Maninblack4612]

believe that the whole thing is just marketing.

I disagree. I can't hit a bladed 4 iron but I can get my Wilson D7 airborne (now that I've fine tuned the loft). When putting together a set, just start with the club you can hit properly & forget any stronger lofted ones. I'll eventually drop the 4 iron as my swing speed continues to fall & use a hybrid in its place. There's no need to buy clubs you don't need, or pay a fortune - look at the price of the D7s compared with other brands.

 

[Golfnut1957]

I disagree. I can't hit a bladed 4 iron but I can get my Wilson D7 airborne (now that I've fine tuned the loft). When putting together a set, just start with the club you can hit properly & forget any stronger lofted ones. I'll eventually drop the 4 iron as my swing speed continues to fall & use a hybrid in its place. There's no need to buy clubs you don't need, or pay a fortune - look at the price of the D7s compared with other brands.

You think that Callaway and Taylormade don't do marketing? Don't answer, it was a rhetorical question. Everyone understands marketing, remember getting 17 yards extra distance for three years in a row off Taylomade.

However, I do think you missed my point, which was made in response to the OP's original point rather than the general discussion about how far anyone hits their clubs. I fully understand the benefits of GI and SGI clubs over blades, I've just gone down that route myself with stronger lofted Mizuno JPF 919 Forged.

What I am seeing are clubs that go as far as I would expect. I hit the 6 iron approx 170, give or take, which is 10 yards further than my blade 6 iron, which is what I would expect given the 2 degree weaker lofts, but the launch with that 6 iron is lower than my blade 5 iron which is odd considering the claims and the fact that I have gone from stiff to regular shafts.

Where the JPX wins is on off-centre (toe in my case) hits where the distance loss is less than the blade, but the trade-off is in feel, nothing beats the feel of stringing finger from a toed blade reminding you to practise and get better.

I played South Shields last Thursday, love that course.

 

[phils226]

I disagree. I can't hit a bladed 4 iron but I can get my Wilson D7 airborne (now that I've fine tuned the loft). When putting together a set, just start with the club you can hit properly & forget any stronger lofted ones. I'll eventually drop the 4 iron as my swing speed continues to fall & use a hybrid in its place. There's no need to buy clubs you don't need, or pay a fortune - look at the price of the D7s compared with other brands.

A really good observation. I've recently bought the Wilson D7 and loved how much distance I was getting with the 7 Iron until I discovered it had 28 degrees of loft. Simarly I'm struggling to hit the 5 Iron where the loft is 22 degrees - that's almost a 3 iron in 'old money'!

 

[Swinglowandslow]

The information put out by manufacturers and various publishers says that modern, strong lofted game improvement irons have been engineered to deliver the same launch angle as their weaker lofted predecessors. Phrases like, "towering trajectory," are common. Supposedly they are easier to launch high but go further.

I'm finding, with my new Ping G425s, that I can only achieve trajectories like my old, weakly lofted irons, if I really go after it. When I really go after it, I'm more likely to make a poor strike. The poor strikes are marginally better than the old clubs, but surely that's not the only intended benefit for an average golfer.

The net result is that I'm yet to be convinced that they are improving my game.

Anybody "improvers" experiencing similar or proper golfers willing to impart an opinion?

Interesting. I shall bear this in mind when my pp gets his G425s ( presently ordered)
He strikes a good iron shot, well enough for me to wonder why he is changing?, but , a new set of irons- lovely!.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I never know what to believe. Plenty of people believe that they simply strengthened lofts so they would go further than people's older clubs. Others believe their reasoning about lowering the loft to improve the ball flight. All I know is, I can't hit my 26° 6 iron, and my bag technically has five wedges in it, which I think is a bit silly. Whenever I get my next irons I would like to try slightly weaker lofts if I can, just to make things a bit more sensible.

26* 6 iron?. How times change. My 2 yr old srixon 6 is 28 while my Muirfield blades is 33.
Makes a case for identifying irons by loft rather than number?

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I am not an improver - might be the opposite. Whether I'm a proper golfer is debateable. Current HI is 3.4. Varied between 3.0 and 4.3 already this year.

Last three years I've been losing a bit of distance due to age.
Using Ping G10 3 and 4 iron and i10 5-PW and a Ping 52W. So I am due a change, I feel.
I used to hit my 3-iron over 200, now it is more like 195. The losses in distances decrease down the set to maybe only a yard or two with the PW and 52W.
Something with a stronger loft than my current 3-iron would not be a problem as I have no difficulty getting it up in the air.

What I would like to do now is go for a fitting with my agenda of,
"Give me 9 irons. I want the longest one to go 200 yards and the shortest one to go 100 yards with reasonably equal differences between clubs. I don't care what numbers and lofts you put on them. In fact I would prefer you just number them 1 to 9. I'm paying money for this fitting so if you can not do what I ask say now."

This is my idea of customer lead marketing.

Lol- if I went to a fitter with that agenda, I'd have to give him six million dollars to spend on me!?

 

[Deleted member 29109]

26* 6 iron?. How times change. My 2 yr old srixon 6 is 28 while my Muirfield blades is 33.
Makes a case for identifying irons by loft rather than number?

They haven't changed that much if you consider the wide range of lofts Ping do over their range.

6 Iron lofts
710
Standard - 26
Power Spec - 24.5
Retro Spec - 27.8

425
Standard - 26.5
Power Spec - 25
Retro Spec - 28.3

210
Standard - 29.5
Power Spec - 28
Retro Spec - 31.5

Blueprint
Standard - 30.5
Power Spec - 28.5
Retro Spec - 32.5


The loft on the retro spec Blueprint 6 iron sits between a standard 7 and 8 iron from the G425 range.

The key is getting a good fitting that works for you.

 

[Crow]

They haven't changed that much if you consider the wide range of lofts Ping do over their range.

6 Iron lofts
710
Standard - 26
Power Spec - 24.5
Retro Spec - 27.8

425
Standard - 26.5
Power Spec - 25
Retro Spec - 28.3

210
Standard - 29.5
Power Spec - 28
Retro Spec - 31.5

Blueprint
Standard - 30.5
Power Spec - 28.5
Retro Spec - 32.5

Good grief!
No wonder people get confused.

 

[harpo_72]

Hang on here,
When the pro’s strike the ball they deloft, another thread we had showed the track man study that the pro’s deliver around 50% of the actual club loft.
So assuming they are efficient, and the average joe isn’t then jacked lofts only help them to achieve or get closer to the 50% number .. and if your pretty good you can have higher lofted clubs because you can get closer to the 50% delofted value ..
So in the end it’s more about your delivery and choosing the right irons that allow you to get to the 50% de loft figure. Those players that hit it well and deloft at close to 50% and use game improvement irons will need a shed load of wedges or should purchase traditional lofted irons … no one has got longer the manufacturers have seen a weakness in the amateur game.

 

[Golfnut1957]

26* 6 iron?. How times change. My 2 yr old srixon 6 is 28 while my Muirfield blades is 33.
Makes a case for identifying irons by loft rather than number?

Hogan did that a couple of years back with their Fort Worth 15 irons, a new take on an older model. They had lofts inscribed on the sole rather than model numbers, and it appeared that they didn't go down very well, they changed the 2nd generation to modern numbers.

I bought a set. Dropped dead gorgeous, pretty unforgiving. I work everything out in 10 yard increments from my 8 iron at 150. They weren't very intuitive as I had to think about which club I wanted to use on every single shot. i.e. I've got 165 the 37 is my 8, so I'm between my 33 and 29, it's slightly up hill, the wind is etc, etc. I thought I would get used to it, but instead it got old pretty quick.

 

[BridgfordBlue]

The information put out by manufacturers and various publishers says that modern, strong lofted game improvement irons have been engineered to deliver the same launch angle as their weaker lofted predecessors. Phrases like, "towering trajectory," are common. Supposedly they are easier to launch high but go further.

I'm finding, with my new Ping G425s, that I can only achieve trajectories like my old, weakly lofted irons, if I really go after it. When I really go after it, I'm more likely to make a poor strike. The poor strikes are marginally better than the old clubs, but surely that's not the only intended benefit for an average golfer.

The net result is that I'm yet to be convinced that they are improving my game.

Anybody "improvers" experiencing similar or proper golfers willing to impart an opinion?

I’ve played six rounds with my new G425s and I think they’re slightly lower than my previous set, although I’ve always been a high launcher of the ball anyway. The only club I’ve noticed a significantly lower launch angle is my 4 iron but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing for me.

Greens wise though, I am finding they’re stopping quickly even with the slightly lower launch angle. Somethings working with them for me as I’ve had a fair bit of improvement scores wise already (and staying consistent).

 

[Dando]

I switched from mizuno blades in nov last year, its been a revelation for me, it gives far more confidence hitting 7 iron the distance I used to hit a 5, phylogically at least though there are more or less the same loft. I had MP4 before and hit them well, but the jpx go high and straight. Like today, didn't hit a good drive on 12, had 195 to the pin, 6 iron pin high, I would have struggled to hit the 4 iron that well to get there. Though I was sceptical to start with, the proof is in the pudding, for me anyway.

i used older Mizzy blades (TP originals) and while i could hit them a fair distance the miss hits were .

i got fitted for Srixon z585's and apart from being about 1-1.5 clubs longer i am more consistent with them which makes a massive difference

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Hogan did that a couple of years back with their Fort Worth 15 irons, a new take on an older model. They had lofts inscribed on the sole rather than model numbers, and it appeared that they didn't go down very well, they changed the 2nd generation to modern numbers.

I bought a set. Dropped dead gorgeous, pretty unforgiving. I work everything out in 10 yard increments from my 8 iron at 150. They weren't very intuitive as I had to think about which club I wanted to use on every single shot. i.e. I've got 165 the 37 is my 8, so I'm between my 33 and 29, it's slightly up hill, the wind is etc, etc. I thought I would get used to it, but instead it got old pretty quick.

Yes, take your point?

 

[tigerwes]

I have a simple views the straighter the face the more likely it is that any side spin will exagerated.

The straighter the face the harder it will to hit in the first place - good loft and good distance only comes from a good hit.

This is exactly how I see it, though I could be wrong. The less loft you have the harder to hit it straight.

I've just booked myself in for a fitting at Scottsdale, but I was tempted with a set of Orka's for this very reason. I think their 7iron is 36°.

Personally I would like a combo set, bladed pw-8 , cavity 7-5. Then maybe a game improver 4iron. The problem is you would probably find each set of irons have different lofts which would need adjusting to get equal gaps.

 

[Orikoru]

This is exactly how I see it, though I could be wrong. The less loft you have the harder to hit it straight.

I've just booked myself in for a fitting at Scottsdale, but I was tempted with a set of Orka's for this very reason. I think their 7iron is 36°.

Personally I would like a combo set, bladed pw-8 , cavity 7-5. Then maybe a game improver 4iron. The problem is you would probably find each set of irons have different lofts which would need adjusting to get equal gaps.

I've been saying this for like two years, but I'm hoping to get Orkas for my next set - they seem to be a reasonable amount cheaper than the big manufacturers, and the less strong lofts really appeal to me. Because as I've said earlier, it does seem a bit silly that I can't hit a 6 iron, and have five wedges in the bag (in name anyway). I would like to think a custom fit set with softer lofts would be more sensible.