Stroke indexes changed

[Evesdad]

Had an email a couple of weeks ago about the club changing the stroke indexes at our course due to recommendations from CONGU. Has anybody had this at their course before? There are only aprox 5 holes not changing, as you can imagine a lot of grumbling about whats hard and not etc but from what i see its more about where the hole is on the nine. As an experiment i checked my stableford points in the last 3 rounds played since we were informed and 2 were the same, just scored differently and the last was 1 point less. A great help to me is the 4th is now stroke index 1, so now 2 strokes whereas before i only got the one. This is traded off against only getting 1 shot on the 5th now although never really needed it here so all is well.

So will it all pass over soon as everyone gets used to the new indexes or will the moaning carry on until they have something else to moan about?

 

[AmandaJR]

So will it all pass over soon as everyone gets used to the new indexes or will the moaning carry on until they have something else to moan about?

Probably this! Our course has changed with the 16th lengthened and I think will change when it's assessed again. I think the criteria is more around where the holes are (balancing the SI) in the front/back 9 rather than level of difficulty being the primary factor. Our SI1 plays my SI16 but I figure it's swings and roundabouts and what I make on that I probably lose somewhere else!

 

[pbrown7582]

The problem stems from the notion that SI 1 is the hardest hole whereas under congu guidelines this is not the case it is given a fairly limited location if guidelines are followed.
We had an experiment where there was one set of SI for matchplay and a different one for stableford, was found that it just caused more confusion that it solved. I'm sure you'll get used to it over winter and all will be calm by spring.

 

[slicer79]

My course changed a par 4 into a par 3 but index have remained the same. I think they all need to be looked at, howdidido rank the holes in terms of difficulty based on the scores in each competition and they never seem to reflect the index on the card in the case of about 5/6 holes in particular

 

[HomerJSimpson]

There are a few bones of contention at my club. SI3 (16th) plays eminantly harder than SI 1 with more punishment on poor drives on the 16th punished harder. As both are on the back 9 I'd like to see them reversed although in truth it is an academic exercise as I get shots on both but after nearly 7 years the scores don't lie

 

[Andy808]

We are soon to go through the same thing but more because we have had one hole lengthened to make it a par 5 for the gents and as this is currently SI1 it certainly won't be if it gets the go ahead for the par change. The hole that is currently SI2 should become SI1 but we have made some suggestions as to how to make sure it will be by adding a drainage ditch to narrow the target and drain the green better as it's sopping wet already. I can't wait for the seniors to start kicking off about it.

 

[cookelad]

It should all calm down after a short while as people get used to where they get their shots! As pbrown suggested its a common mistake that SI1 is the hardest hole on the course when in reality it's about spreading shots through the course of an entire round. It's swings and roundabouts you'll lose a shot on 1 hole but gain it elsewhere!

 

[pbrown7582]

We are soon to go through the same thing but more because we have had one hole lengthened to make it a par 5 for the gents and as this is currently SI1 it certainly won't be if it gets the go ahead for the par change. The hole that is currently SI2 should become SI1 but we have made some suggestions as to how to make sure it will be by adding a drainage ditch to narrow the target and drain the green better as it's sopping wet already. I can't wait for the seniors to start kicking off about it.

Not quite as simple as swapping SI 1 & 2 around as all odd SI have to be on one 9 and all even on the other 9.

 

[d2cko]

In all fairness the SI has almost nothing to do with difficulty of the hole and even less to do with stableford points. It is all based on matchplay. The SI's should be organised so that a higher handicap will get most/all of his shots before the match is over (usually around the 15/16th), they should also take into account the location of the SI 1, it should not be in the first or last couple of holes on each 9.

There are other factors that are taken into account in the guidelines but stableford points are definately NOT one of them.

I'm sure there is an expert on here who can clarify exactly what the guidelines are.

D

 

[CliveW]

One of our courses (Lansdowne) changed their SIs a couple of years ago and it was a bit of a nightmare as not only did the scorecards have to be changed, but also the tee markers of the holes that were changed. The hardest problem to resolve was with SkyCaddie as it took them months to change their database.

 

[Phil2511]

I think our SI must be ok since SI 1 and 2 are the only 2 holes I haven't parred for my eclectic this year lol

 

[Foxholer]

Course I'm at changed SIs some time after major changes to the course - that had already been re-mapped by SkyCaddy.

SIs now match difficulty pretty well AND pretty much comply with Congu recommendations. Biggest change was SI16 becoming SI5. All SIs changed as back 9 became the odds. Only took SkyCaddie a couple of days to change their database. I simply informed them what the new values were - and I think they confirmed it with their contact at the club.

Plates have not yet been changed, but have had new values glued to them - looks messy and most have come loose. Cards were changed pretty quickly and Strokesavers were updated on re-order. Quite an expensive exercise though, but not a lot compared to the original re-modelling I would think.

 

[Andy808]

Not quite as simple as swapping SI 1 & 2 around as all odd SI have to be on one 9 and all even on the other 9.

I didn't mention just swapping them around. The only obvious change would be SI2 to SI1 then it would have to be worked out what the other hole would become. Why do you think all the odds are on one 9 and the evens on the other?

 

[Imurg]

That's what the CONGU guidelines state....

IN reality a huge number of courses allocate SI based on difficulty and many don't follow the guidelines to the letter - right or wrong, it happens a lot.

 

[pbrown7582]

along with the congu guidelines have a look at any card from any course and i'd be amazed to find one with anything other than odds on one 9 and evens on the other.
Generally odds on front and evens on back with SI1 in and around hole 6.

 

[Evesdad]

Most of our changes have been to get the odds on one and evens on the other nine. Also changing the si1 to the fifth and not the 8th so it's in the middle of the nine etc. like most have said it didn't really bother me as I gain on some and lose on the others it will just take a bit of time to adjust to where I get my shots now. To top it off I birdied the fourth which under the new indexes would give me two shots and 5 points in stableford! Lovely! It doesn't come into effect for a while as all the old score cards need using up first and then they will also change the tee markers.

 

[rosecott]

along with the congu guidelines have a look at any card from any course and i'd be amazed to find one with anything other than odds on one 9 and evens on the other.
Generally odds on front and evens on back with SI1 in and around hole 6.

The odd numbers should go on the more difficult 9, usually the longer in yardage.

 

[joe nustedt]

along with the congu guidelines have a look at any card from any course and i'd be amazed to find one with anything other than odds on one 9 and evens on the other.

Does happen though, I noticed playing at a course earlier this year that they had mixed up the odds and evens which I thought was strange. Just did a quick scan of my cards from this summer, and 12 courses have the odds/evens and there was actually 2 which had them mixed up.

 

[Foxholer]

I've certainly seen mixed indexes.

And I seem to remember that The Old Course was mixed some time back too - after the recommendations though. Seems to have been normally since though.