Still a qualifier?

[pokerjoke]

We are currently still playing qualifiers.
The last 2 comps we are off our winter course.
Both had one temp and all bunkers were GUR.
I really don’t get that all bunkers can be GUR and it’s still a qualifier.
Anyone shed light on this?

 

[wjemather]

For most courses, the effect of bunkers on ratings is minimal, particularly CR.
Also, on average, the nearest point of relief provides little advantage to being in the bunker, particularly greenside.

As such, resultant score differentials are minimally affected even when all bunkers are GUR, and GB&I authorities have decided that scores can remain acceptable for handicapping.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

For most courses, the effect of bunkers on ratings is minimal.
Also, on average, the nearest point of relief provides little advantage to being in the bunker, particularly greenside.

Was that supposed to be an answer to something different than bunkers being GUR

 

[rulefan]

Was that supposed to be an answer to something different than bunkers being GUR

It seems there is now a PS

 

[D-S]

I always think this is an odd ruling to come out from an office a few hundred yards away from the Hotchkin at Woodhall Spa, where, if all bunkers are GUR, is a completely different test both for tee shots and approaches.

 

[clubchamp98]

Most courses play much easier imo if there’s no bunkers.
Not so much Greenside but fairway bunkers can cost you at least one shot.
Especially if you’re not that good out of them.
What an odd rule.

 

[Swango1980]

I personally find golf courses much easier if all bunkers being GUR, and it has virtually nothing to do with actually having to play out of them (I can go a whole round without being in one)

It is more the approach I take on drives or approach shots.

For a drive, I often have to consider where I hit the ball, or edge towards a bail out area, when there is a bunker that could catch my drive. Or, just hit a shorter club off tee. If bunkers are GUR, I can almost smash a driver into a much wider area, and not care if it catches the bunker or not.

Similar for approach shots. I'll usually have a mind as to where the greenside bunkers are, and have to try and play a shot to avoid ending up in one if I can. Whereas, with the bunkers GUR, it basically takes that concern away, and I can often be more aggressive without worrying about the consequences if I don't execute it right.

I'd love to have a full season where 50% of my rounds are normal, 50% of my rounds all bunkers are GUR, and compare my scores (well, not love to, but would be interested in the outcome)

 

[D-S]

I know when re rate courses we spend a lot of time measuring distances to bunkers, assessing proportion of the green surrounded by bunkers, whether a bunker covers over 50% of the approach into a green, how deep bunkers are etc. etc.
If they fundamentally make no difference to the bogey and scratch rating irrespective of how many and how penal they are as the ruling would suggest (as it applies to every course), then I and the rating team have wasted a lot of time.

 

[Swango1980]

I know when re rate courses we spend a lot of time measuring distances to bunkers, assessing proportion of the green surrounded by bunkers, whether a bunker covers over 50% of the approach into a green, how deep bunkers are etc. etc.
If they fundamentally make no difference to the bogey and scratch rating irrespective of how many and how penal they are as the ruling would suggest (as it applies to every course), then I and the rating team have wasted a lot of time.

Another good point. If bunkers have a minimal impact on scoring, do we need them?

 

[rulefan]

Another good point. If bunkers have a minimal impact on scoring, do we need them?

I don't think D-S was suggesting that they have a minimal effect. Just that if they do, he has wasted his time
It depends on where they are and whether the rating is for the scratch or bogey player.

 

[Swango1980]

I don't think D-S was suggesting that they have a minimal effect. Just that if they do, he has wasted his time
It depends on where they are and whether the rating is for the scratch or bogey player.

I know that. I was asking a hypothetical question. Post 7 gave my personal view on bunkers

 

[D-S]

Obviously it varies from course to course. Painswick off the top of m6 head has no bunkers, courses with just a handful hardly change the challenge if all bunkers are GUR.
However the Hotchkin off the yellows is 6522 yards, CR 72.5 slope 149. If you remove all the bunkers no one can tell me that the CR and especially slope would be the same or even remotely similar. Most courses are on a spectrum between these extremes and as such a blanket ‘scores are acceptable if all bunkers are GUR’ seems clumsy at best.

 

[doublebogey7]

Another good point. If bunkers have a minimal impact on scoring, do we need them?

While I have some sympathy with the view that all bunkers GUR make a difference to scoring, it is not the same as not having them. If there are not any in front of the green then balls can roll onto the green. Also when bunkers are GUR players will not always have an easier chip shot.

 

[clubchamp98]

While I have some sympathy with the view that all bunkers GUR make a difference to scoring, it is not the same as not having them. If there are not any in front of the green then balls can roll onto the green. Also when bunkers are GUR players will not always have an easier chip shot.

Yes it depends where you drop it.
Behind the bunker is no picnic.
But if you duff it at least there’s no penalty shots.

The fairway bunkers are important as they can definitely take length of your shot.
But dropping outside can restore the length you lose.

 

[rulie]

Yes it depends where you drop it.
Behind the bunker is no picnic.
But if you duff it at least there’s no penalty shots.

The fairway bunkers are important as they can definitely take length of your shot.
But dropping outside can restore the length you lose.

How does dropping outside and no nearer the hole "restore the length you lose"?

 

[clubchamp98]

How does dropping outside and no nearer the hole "restore the length you lose"?

Well if you end up in the face of a bunker off the tee your not hitting it 200 yds and are probably just getting out.

If you drop out you probably havnt got a bunker face in front of you so can hit any club you like.!

 

[rulie]

Well if you end up in the face of a bunker off the tee your not hitting it 200 yds and are probably just getting out.

If you drop out you probably havnt got a bunker face in front of you so can hit any club you like.!

Oh, so you don't really restore the distance you lost, just have an easier next shot?

 

[clubchamp98]

Oh, so you don't really restore the distance you lost, just have an easier next shot?

Yes the distance between just wedging out the bunker and being able to hit 3 wood
so that surley has an impact on how much easier it is.

We are constantly told the key to good golf is how far you can hit it.

 

[Colin L]

Yes the distance between just wedging out the bunker and being able to hit 3 wood
so that surley has an impact on how much easier it is.

We are constantly told the key to good golf is how far you can hit it.

That's one of the keys in the set I keep on mislaying.