Stats (for those who are interested only)

[Orikoru]

I record some basic stats in Hole19. Not really sure why as I don't use them for anything but a point of interest. Every stat is useless on it's own because each stat affects another stat. For example, you had 35 putts which you think is rubbish, but then maybe you hit 75% of greens when you normally miss more and chip closer to the hole, and so on. Similarly I record fairways hit, but if I miss one by two yards and it's sitting up in light rough I'm not exactly downbeat about it. So while I find it interesting to look at it, it's quite hard to really make improvements based on the stats.

Interesting that a 20 handicapper has more chance of hitting the green from 76-80 than 71-75.....

That actually makes sense to me - at 80 yards you could be hitting a full shot with a sand wedge, whereas once you get closer you're hitting partial shots and pitch shots which are more difficult for lots of people. Everyone has that troublesome yardage.

One of the points that Stagner often makes with these kind of Stats isn't just expectation management, but also that handicap golfers should be biasing their aim towards the middle of the green rather than the pin even on fairly short shots.

I consider myself to be pretty good at course management. It's kinda sad that whenever I see a video or article claiming easy wins to get your handicap down, it's so often stuff like that - getting yardage to back of the green rather than the front - taking plenty of club - not going for hero shots. And I already do that stuff so it doesn't help me. No low-hanging fruit for my game unfortunately.

 

[Orikoru]

It's common sense really isn't it. Aim at the middle and if you pull, push, under or over club etc you may still find the green. Aim at a pin and one of those will make you miss the green.
Unfortunately we don't always use common sense whilst playing golf. Even though when watching others it can be obvious!

Agree, but I'll more likely aim for between middle and back of the green in case I don't strike it great (which is likely). Also I'll play for my shot shape, if I've been hitting weak fades all day with my wedges then I'm aiming for the left side.

 

[pendodave]

Please read before posting.

If you’re feeling the need to pick a stat apart please be courteous enough to leave this thread alone and start a new one.

No-one on this forum encourages people to think about positive learning opportunities from stats than me, but I think that's a bit much.
Picking at a stat to think about why it's like it is, and how it could be useful (or not) is a good thing imho. It's definitely not the same as saying "nah, putt for dough".
The reference to US green sizes is a good example. Also applies to courses in the UK - the 2 courses I play are completely different in this regard.

I listen to enough statty pods to have a decent idea about what's normal for me (10 capper). The biggest transformation has been in expectation management and how much it has improved my enjoyment of the game. It's also made me better around the green by making it easier to accept the bogey, thus avoiding doubles. I think I might work a little harder at penalty shot avoidance this year to see how it works around my course, whuch has a lot of ob, hazards and trees.

Curiously, I don't monitor any stats myself. I have a vague idea what my numbers look like, so if anything seems wildly out I might work on it. I'm just too lazy to put in the hard yards!

 

[WGCRider]

Interesting that a 20 handicapper has more chance of hitting the green from 76-80 than 71-75.....

I'd bet this is to do with being able to hit a full shot with say LW vs having to hit a 3/4 shot and screwing it up.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I'd bet this is to do with being able to hit a full shot with say LW vs having to hit a 3/4 shot and screwing it up.

I’d bet most high cappers aren’t great at hitting full shots with lob wedges.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I used to do stats; SS2 from a member on here. It didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.
I then used a simple spreadsheet to moniter scores per hole, which helped point out which holes caused issues. Again, nothing really new.

What has been informative though is the likes of Stagner. i have a mate who told me that from 100yds in I should be putting wedges to 10ft off my handicap. It was nice to be able to see what the average tour pro does and say "actually no, I shouldn't be able to do that at my level".

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I’d bet most high cappers aren’t great at hitting full shots with lob wedges.

I'd say that most 20 handicappers can't hit a lob wedge 76-80 yds

 

[Deleted member 29109]

What has been informative though is the likes of Stagner. i have a mate who told me that from 100yds in I should be putting wedges to 10ft off my handicap. It was nice to be able to see what the average tour pro does and say "actually no, I shouldn't be able to do that at my level".

I think this stuff is really important for us normal golfers. People’s expectations of the shots they think they should hit v shots they are regularly capable of hitting are what out of whack.

I also think people’s expectations of the amount they practice v their scores is way out too. They don’t get that hitting 100 balls aimlessly into a field for an hour a week is not going to get them shooting lower scores.
They think they have hit it well on the range, whereas the reality is they haven’t. Then they get frustrated.

 

[pendodave]

I'd say that most 20 handicappers can't hit a lob wedge 76-80 yds

I think you can probably omit the distance qualifier on that!

 

[pendodave]

I also think people’s expectations of the amount they practice v their scores is way out too. They don’t get that hitting 100 balls aimlessly into a field for an hour a week is not going to get them shooting lower scores.

You can take a horse to water...
These will be the people who (think they) can hit a full wedge to 10 feet, but "just can't" hit a 50 yard shot.

For some reason, learning to hit a 50 yard shot just won't appear in the radar. Even though they're much more likely to be able to achieve this than to add 20 yards to their drive, or reduce the dispersion on their 6 iron.

 

[Jigger]

No-one on this forum encourages people to think about positive learning opportunities from stats than me, but I think that's a bit much.
Picking at a stat to think about why it's like it is, and how it could be useful (or not) is a good thing imho. It's definitely not the same as saying "nah, putt for dough".
The reference to US green sizes is a good example. Also applies to courses in the UK - the 2 courses I play are completely different in this regard.

I listen to enough statty pods to have a decent idea about what's normal for me (10 capper). The biggest transformation has been in expectation management and how much it has improved my enjoyment of the game. It's also made me better around the green by making it easier to accept the bogey, thus avoiding doubles. I think I might work a little harder at penalty shot avoidance this year to see how it works around my course, whuch has a lot of ob, hazards and trees.

Curiously, I don't monitor any stats myself. I have a vague idea what my numbers look like, so if anything seems wildly out I might work on it. I'm just too lazy to put in the hard yards!

You’re probably like me in that seeing an interesting stat every now and again is a good reminder the your round isn’t over with the first double on 4th. They can be helpful in many different ways.

I’ve read the four foundations of golf which is a great start for anyone.

 

[Jigger]

I used to do stats; SS2 from a member on here. It didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.
I then used a simple spreadsheet to moniter scores per hole, which helped point out which holes caused issues. Again, nothing really new.

What has been informative though is the likes of Stagner. i have a mate who told me that from 100yds in I should be putting wedges to 10ft off my handicap. It was nice to be able to see what the average tour pro does and say "actually no, I shouldn't be able to do that at my level".

Yep I’ve a mate who plays off 10 who thinks he should be parring every hole! Perception can be very different from reality and I like a stat that makes me go “you know what, I’m not playing too badly”

 

[Imurg]

I'd bet this is to do with being able to hit a full shot with say LW vs having to hit a 3/4 shot and screwing it up.

Possible but, within the stated parameters, you could be talking about shots of 74 yards and 77 yards.....I'd say there's not much difference for Scratch player when you're talking 3 yards......
A 5 index is also more likely to hit the green from 66-70 than 61-65......that's my Index(ish) and that's a partial shot for me from either distance

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Jon Sherman's book the Four Foundations of Golf talks a lot about managing expectations

One simple piece relates to pro stats for holing out from 3 feet and then once you get to 5 feet and further )not as many as many would think). If they aren't doing it regularly how can a weekend golfer be consistent yet many expect to be making loads more from 3 feet than they do. Lou Stagner uses the stats to also tame expectations based on your handicap ability

 

[rulefan]

A 5 index is also more likely to hit the green from 66-70 than 61-65

The table suggests otherwise

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Jon Sherman's book the Four Foundations of Golf talks a lot about managing expectations

One simple piece relates to pro stats for holing out from 3 feet and then once you get to 5 feet and further )not as many as many would think). If they aren't doing it regularly how can a weekend golfer be consistent yet many expect to be making loads more from 3 feet than they do. Lou Stagner uses the stats to also tame expectations based on your handicap ability

We only really watch the elite Pros, especially those near the lead of tournaments. The average pro is nowhere near as good as the top lot 99% of the time. So, not only should we ignore what tour pros do, but definitely ignore those on TV.

 

[Imurg]

The table suggests otherwise

61-65....76%
66-70....77%

 

[Jigger]

Jon Sherman's book the Four Foundations of Golf talks a lot about managing expectations

One simple piece relates to pro stats for holing out from 3 feet and then once you get to 5 feet and further )not as many as many would think). If they aren't doing it regularly how can a weekend golfer be consistent yet many expect to be making loads more from 3 feet than they do. Lou Stagner uses the stats to also tame expectations based on your handicap ability

I agree. Best bet is to measure yourself, practice a month and re-benchmark. I’d argue it’s an easier part of the game to practice but an awful lot of it is ability to read a green.

 

[rulefan]

61-65....76%
66-70....77%

Oops

 

[Whereditgo]

Jon Sherman's book the Four Foundations of Golf talks a lot about managing expectations

One simple piece relates to pro stats for holing out from 3 feet and then once you get to 5 feet and further )not as many as many would think). If they aren't doing it regularly how can a weekend golfer be consistent yet many expect to be making loads more from 3 feet than they do. Lou Stagner uses the stats to also tame expectations based on your handicap ability

Lots of good listening on the podcast he does with Adam Young too, The Sweetspot, especially the ones with guests Lou Stagner, Scott Fawcett and Mark Broadie.