SSS/CSS

[3offTheTee]

I have read the post about 6 below this and would ask the following which equating to me earlier this week:

I played Southerness which is Par 69 but the CSS was 72 on the day.

I had 32 points. Am I in my buffer zone and if so could someone explain why please?

Addditionally in a medal round I can still play within my buffer zone even if I have a net double bogey!

Eg. I play off 13 and if on stroke index 15 PAR 3 I had a 6 this would be discarded.

Is this correct?

Any advice would be appreciated

 

[Ethan]

Buffer zone.

Par 69, CSS 72 means that the Stableford points total which is exactly on handicap for the day was 33 points. The buffer zone is 1 for Cat 1 (up to 5), 2 for Cat 2 (6-12) and so on, so 32 points was in the buffer zone that day for all handicap categories.

Your 6 on a par 3 where you do not get a shot is simply recorded as 0 points.

 

[birdieman]

You are in your buffer, on your handicap you have a 3 shot buffer zone.
As CSS was 3 over par that means you needed 33 points to play to your exact handicap. You could have scored as little as 30 points and still have been in your 3 shot buffer zone.

You are correct re the treble bogey being reduced to a double for handicapping becuase it was stroke 15, if it had been stroke 1-13 you wouldn't have had that reduction.

 

[3offTheTee]

Many thanks guys. Really appreciate your help

 

[Twire]

I thought the CSS was adjusted against SSS and not par. So the calculation should be between CSS and SSS, and par shouldent come into it.

 

[Ethan]

I thought the CSS was adjusted against SSS and not par. So the calculation should be between CSS and SSS, and par shouldent come into it.

Par is needed to know what the zero change points score is, in this case 33 points because par 69, CSS 72. In medal, you have a net score and a CSS, and these determine the adjustment, so par is not needed.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I thought the CSS was adjusted against SSS and not par. So the calculation should be between CSS and SSS, and par shouldent come into it.

Correct, these posts all assume SSS=Par.

 

[Twire]

I thought the CSS was adjusted against SSS and not par. So the calculation should be between CSS and SSS, and par shouldent come into it.

Par is needed to know what the zero change points score is, in this case 33 points because par 69, CSS 72. In medal, you have a net score and a CSS, and these determine the adjustment, so par is not needed.

You start your paragraph with "Par is needed...." and finish it with "so par is not needed"....now I'm confused.

 

[birdieman]

I thought the CSS was adjusted against SSS and not par. So the calculation should be between CSS and SSS, and par shouldent come into it.

Correct, these posts all assume SSS=Par.

Not sure what you mean there, the above posts don't assume SSS=Par.
As Ethan has explained for stableford scoring par is needed because points are awarded on net scores i.e. a nett par = 2 points, nett birdie 3 points etc. If par equaled SSS/CSS then it would be 36 points required to play to handicap i.e. 2 points per hole but as CSS on this occassion is 3 over par that comes down to 33 points needed with 3 shots buffer for Cat3 meaning 30 points would prevent a 0.1 increase. For Cat 1 or Cat 2 30 points would mean a 0.1 increase in handicap as the buffer zones are smaller.

In medal strokeplay par is not relevant.

 

[Ethan]

I thought the CSS was adjusted against SSS and not par. So the calculation should be between CSS and SSS, and par shouldent come into it.

Par is needed to know what the zero change points score is, in this case 33 points because par 69, CSS 72. In medal, you have a net score and a CSS, and these determine the adjustment, so par is not needed.

You start your paragraph with "Par is needed...." and finish it with "so par is not needed"....now I'm confused.

In Stableford, par is needed to know what the zero change points score is, in this case 33 points because par 69, CSS 72.

In medal, you have a net score and a CSS, and these determine the adjustment, so par is not needed.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I thought the CSS was adjusted against SSS and not par. So the calculation should be between CSS and SSS, and par shouldent come into it.

Correct, these posts all assume SSS=Par.

Not sure what you mean there, the above posts don't assume SSS=Par.
As Ethan has explained for stableford scoring par is needed because points are awarded on net scores i.e. a nett par = 2 points, nett birdie 3 points etc. If par equaled SSS/CSS then it would be 36 points required to play to handicap i.e. 2 points per hole but as CSS on this occassion is 3 over par that comes down to 33 points needed with 3 shots buffer for Cat3 meaning 30 points would prevent a 0.1 increase. For Cat 1 or Cat 2 30 points would mean a 0.1 increase in handicap as the buffer zones are smaller.

In medal strokeplay par is not relevant.

Yeah but my point is if SSS was 70(1 over par) then 35 points is required to play to handicap and if it was 71 then 34 points is required. The net result is the same, with CSS of 72, 30 points is required but all these posts have based the calculation on SSS=par which is not correct.

SSS can't be less than par in this case otherwise CSS couldn't be 72, the max would be 71 so in this case it doesn't make very much difference what you use.

However, if SSS was 68 against a par of 69 then playing to your handicap is 37 points. If CSS went to 3 over SSS then 34 points would be the target and with the buffer for Cat 3 31 points would be required to avoid an increase.

So while it isn't important in this case as the result is the same, you are assuming SSS=par and using par in the calculation to work out the buffer zone is incorrect.

At least that's how I understand it

 

[Ethan]

I thought the CSS was adjusted against SSS and not par. So the calculation should be between CSS and SSS, and par shouldent come into it.

Correct, these posts all assume SSS=Par.

Not sure what you mean there, the above posts don't assume SSS=Par.
As Ethan has explained for stableford scoring par is needed because points are awarded on net scores i.e. a nett par = 2 points, nett birdie 3 points etc. If par equaled SSS/CSS then it would be 36 points required to play to handicap i.e. 2 points per hole but as CSS on this occassion is 3 over par that comes down to 33 points needed with 3 shots buffer for Cat3 meaning 30 points would prevent a 0.1 increase. For Cat 1 or Cat 2 30 points would mean a 0.1 increase in handicap as the buffer zones are smaller.

In medal strokeplay par is not relevant.

Yeah but my point is if SSS was 70(1 over par) then 35 points is required to play to handicap and if it was 71 then 34 points is required. The net result is the same, with CSS of 72, 30 points is required but all these posts have based the calculation on SSS=par which is not correct .

SSS can't be less than par in this case otherwise CSS couldn't be 72, the max would be 71 so in this case it doesn't make very much difference what you use.

However, if SSS was 68 against a par of 69 then playing to your handicap is 37 points. If CSS went to 3 over SSS then 34 points would be the target and with the buffer for Cat 3 31 points would be required to avoid an increase.

So while it isn't important in this case as the result is the same, you are assuming SSS=par and using par in the calculation to work out the buffer zone is incorrect.

At least that's how I understand it

But you have just contradicted yourself.

Handicaps are based on CSS, obviously.

But knowing how many points equates to CSS or above or below it requires knowing what par is because the points total is based on par. You must know both the CSS and par. There is no other way.

I just scored 36 points. My course's CSS for that comp was 71. Do I get a handicap reduction, increase or neither?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

But you have just contradicted yourself.

Handicaps are based on CSS, obviously.

But knowing how many points equates to CSS or above or below it requires knowing what par is because the points total is based on par. You must know both the CSS and par. There is no other way.

I just scored 36 points. My course's CSS for that comp was 71. Do I get a handicap reduction, increase or neither?

I don't think I have contradicted myself but maybe I have. You need to know the par of each hole to work out points that much is obvious, but you also need to know SSS to work out the number of points required to play to your handicap.

However, the point I was making is that the posts above were saying that if CSS is 3 above par then playing to your handicap is 33 points. This is misleading, in the case that SSS=Par then it is true but not because CSS is 3 over par but because CSS is 3 over SSS.

Clearly you need to know Par to work out points scored and you need to know the difference between par and SSS to work out how many points are required to play to your handicap under "normal" conditions (ie. CSS=SSS) but if CSS does not equal SSS then the adjustments are not made against par but against SSS.

That is all I was trying to say

 

[Fyldewhite]

This is fairly simple really. If you play level par at stableford you will score 36 points. If the SSS is (say) 68 when the par is 70 then for handicap purposes you would expect to have to score 38 points to play to it and 39 or more to get a reduction. The buffer zone will be between 32 and 35 depending on handicap category.

Clearly, on the day the CSS may be higher or lower than SSS so the scores above would alter accordingly but this should be comparitively rare if the course is correctly SSS assessed in the first place.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

This is fairly simple really. If you play level par at stableford you will score 36 points. If the SSS is (say) 68 when the par is 70 then for handicap purposes you would expect to have to score 38 points to play to it and 39 or more to get a reduction. The buffer zone will be between 32 and 35 depending on handicap category.

Clearly, on the day the CSS may be higher or lower than SSS so the scores above would alter accordingly but this should be comparitively rare if the course is correctly SSS assessed in the first place.

Agreed it should be. All I was trying to point out was you don't use the difference betwee CSS and Par to calculate the buffer, you use the difference between CSS and SSS and therefore, the orginal responses are assuming SSS=Par in this example.

I was just trying to prevent the original poster from being mislead