Sport psych Q&A

[G_Mulligan]

I'm sorry you simply can't just step up to a chip and switch your mind off and hope that your sub conscious is a far better player than you. It simply doesn't work like that. I've seem countless people not think about what they are doing and they make a complete has of it.

If what you are saying is true you would never see a pro take a practice swing on a chip. Why would they? They've hit countless. Even they practice the swing to find where they want the club to bottom out. They practice how long they want the back swing to be. They practice if they want to abbreviate the follow through. They practice the tempo and power of the stroke and try to feel if that is what they are looking for. They imagine if the swing is enough to create the picture in their head.

They do not step up to the ball and switch off their mind. Anything but. They are fully focused on the task at hand. They relax and play the shot as they have done all the calculations they can and execute the shot exactly as planned.

" There have been key shots in Major tournaments where I took the club out of the bag and I didn't remember anything until I saw the ball land on the green" Tiger Woods

It does work exactly like that. I am not saying you can't hit good chips while thinking about mechanics and I am not saying that switching the mind off will guarantee a good one but it makes it much more likely.

I also never said you don't need to take a practice swing. But once the analysis is done it's better to switch off the PFC and let the basal ganglia (muscle memory) take over.

Give this a try next time you are walking pay attention to every step, think about every foot placement, knee bend, balance transfer and weight distribution. I bet you can't walk in your normal nice smooth rhythm, in fact I bet you look like you don't know how to walk. Better to just let muscle memory take you where you want to go. You learned how to walk years ago and you haven't forgotten.

 

[G_Mulligan]

I will pay you very very healthily if you can teach me to just "completely empty my mind of any thoughts" on a repeatable basis!

Give mindfulness meditation a try. It's very good

 

[3565]

Just because you have not come across the technique in those books does not make it valid. I meant no offence and even said you were correct just that I teach it differently. Your way ties the numbers to the action and perhaps this is possible with your musical background but it is not something I would usually suggest. The fact is if your rhythm is off, you are walking fast or slow that day, you are maybe a bit angry with your round or the last shot then it could really throw the technique and your rhythm off and your technique too fast or too slow.

You don't want any technique cues whatsoever. You want to completely empty the mind of all thoughts. I agree it can sound difficult and complicated at first especially when reading it. Maybe I did not explain it very well but I usually do it in person one on one. When you get the hang of it though it is very easy to quiet and soften the numbers and send them back and down.

Im not saying the technique you use isn't any good just cos I've not read or heard it before, and I'm always a one for trying new things, concepts cos if you don't try you'll never know, I was just questioning how both techniques use numbers, you think what I do is more complicated? I understand your view on differing paces, walking quickly to get somewhere, dragging my heels around the shops and following her, but on the course I believe we walk relatively the same pace throughout the x amount of hours playing the round. I got no scientific facts to back it up (except to apply common sensical logic IMO). I was struggling, and thought about it and tried it and had some degree of success with it, has it totally cured it no, but I do agree with you about a quiet/empty mind is needed to play the shot and I don't really think of anything whilst playing the shot. I'm trying to get my sub conscious side to start chipping again and to get the annoying interfering side to count my bloody rhytmacal steps.

 

[garyinderry]

just typed in chipping routine and this matches what I said practically word for word. bit creepy actually.

http://www.examiner.com/article/seve-ballesteros-chipping-routine

 

[G_Mulligan]

just typed in chipping routine and this matches what I said practically word for word. bit creepy actually.

http://www.examiner.com/article/seve-ballesteros-chipping-routine

This says nothing whatsoever about focussing on all of that process once you have made the decision and stood over the ball. That is what I am talking about. All of that is absolutely fine in preparing to hit a shot but to try and think about all of that while making a chip is counter productive.

If you look at research into the yips you will find that a good majority of sufferers focus on either technical aspects of the shot, negative outcome of the shot or both.

If it is not a problem for you and you can chip like that then fine go do it. I was writing in reply to a problem that said they have too much technical stuff in their head and they are struggling to chip very well. Thinking about the technique is clearly not working for them so I tried to give them a solution. I fail to see how me telling them your advice would make them a better chipper.

 

[fundy]

Give mindfulness meditation a try. It's very good

Have used mindfulness for years, its not about emptying your mind

 

[bobmac]

No you are wrong.

Gary's not wrong, you're just talking about different things.
Gary is talking about deciding what shot to play. Low, high etc
You are talking about how to play the actual shot chosen. Elbow in, wrist cock, turn the chest etc.

The beginner wont know how to play the shot so will duff it.
The mid handicap will know how to play the shot but still has to think about his technique whereas the low h/cap knows how to play the shot and can play the shot without thinking (sub-conscious competence).

So the first guy is thinking 'dont duff it'
The second guy is thinking 'trust the swing'
The low guy is thinking 'land it right of the flag as the green slopes right to left'

In my opinion, that ability comes from good practice which builds confidence and frees the mind from technical issues of the stroke.

 

[Region3]

I can't empty my mind, but for shots around the green I find that focussing intently on my landing spots takes up enough room in my head that there isn't room to think about technique.

 

[G_Mulligan]

Im not saying the technique you use isn't any good just cos I've not read or heard it before, and I'm always a one for trying new things, concepts cos if you don't try you'll never know, I was just questioning how both techniques use numbers, you think what I do is more complicated? I understand your view on differing paces, walking quickly to get somewhere, dragging my heels around the shops and following her, but on the course I believe we walk relatively the same pace throughout the x amount of hours playing the round. I got no scientific facts to back it up (except to apply common sensical logic IMO). I was struggling, and thought about it and tried it and had some degree of success with it, has it totally cured it no, but I do agree with you about a quiet/empty mind is needed to play the shot and I don't really think of anything whilst playing the shot. I'm trying to get my sub conscious side to start chipping again and to get the annoying interfering side to count my bloody rhytmacal steps.

That's fine and if it works for you then great. I highlighted some of the problems that I can see with this technique and why it might not work for everyone. Mine might not work for everyone especially just reading it and not having me do it properly in my usual setting.

My main concern is that you have replaced the technical points of a chip with a number code. The numbers can help you get into a rhythm but they represent the technical aspects of the stroke. I would suggest removing that technical aspect of the stroke altogether and burying it deep to let the subconscious take over the shot. Also what about longer and shorter chips when the 2-3 3-4 is shorter or longer? It won't work with the full swing as there will be a much longer pause or even a half swing pitch shot. My method has been shown to work with all shots from driver to putter.

Like I said if it works for you then keep doing it but it is not optimal in my opinion.

 

[G_Mulligan]

Gary's not wrong, you're just talking about different things.
Gary is talking about deciding what shot to play. Low, high etc
You are talking about how to play the actual shot chosen. Elbow in, wrist cock, turn the chest etc.

The beginner wont know how to play the shot so will duff it.
The mid handicap will know how to play the shot but still has to think about his technique whereas the low h/cap knows how to play the shot and can play the shot without thinking (sub-conscious competence).

So the first guy is thinking 'dont duff it'
The second guy is thinking 'trust the swing'
The low guy is thinking 'land it right of the flag as the green slopes right to left'

In my opinion, that ability comes from good practice which builds confidence and frees the mind from technical issues of the stroke.

No you are wrong. The body has practiced the technique thousands of times and will not forget. If you are a beginner or learning a new technique then you do need to think about it to an extent but once it is ingrained it is best to switch off and let the muscle memory do it's thing. By thinking about it you are getting in the way of the natural instinctive process which is unnecessary and detrimental.

You can do the analysing and assess the lie and type of shot but then it really is best to switch off and let the quiet mind take over.

You deleted the rest of the post which is pretty much what you said. I was trying to give some advice to Martin who clearly has a problem with over analysis and technical thoughts during the chipping stroke. He has practiced and ingrained the action but for whatever reason does not trust it. I tried to give him a solution on how to do that.

Clearly this is a complicated and confusing issue and definitely won't be one I use for a video fix.

 

[G_Mulligan]

This all seems to have taken the thread completely off track. I wasn't even intending to help people here and now but a few people asked so I gave it a shot.

Does anyone have any more mental problems that I may be able to make a few fault and fixes video clips to help them and others with similar issues.

 

[bobmac]

Are you saying that for best results, the majority of golfers should empty their mind of all technical thoughts before they attempt a shot?

 

[G_Mulligan]

Are you saying that for best results, the majority of golfers should empty their mind of all technical thoughts before they attempt a shot?

Yes. Use the analytical brain to decide which shot to play and then switch it off.

 

[alexbrownmp]

Are you saying that for best results, the majority of golfers should empty their mind of all technical thoughts before they attempt a shot?

interesting that you berate people who question your attempts to help techically as they are not qualified, appears you are doing the same thing with your posts when G_Mulligan has posted his proven credentials.

 

[bobmac]

interesting that you berate people who question your attempts to help techically as they are not qualified, appears you are doing the same thing with your posts when G_Mulligan has posted his proven credentials.

I also have proven credentials which differ from G_Mulligans, and I wanted to be clear I understood his views.

I was not my intention to scold or criticize him angrily.

 

[garyinderry]

I agree completely if you say you shouldn't be thinking about wrist hinge, body turn etc.


My technique doesn't mention anything about that. It focuses purely on trying to match an imagine in your head. Trying to get your body to react to this picture. Practice the stoke until its feels like it matches the picture. then simply step in and repeat this motion at the ball.

The whole time the brain is fully engaged. Focused solely on what you want the shot to do. If you are thinking about rotating chest and hinge for example you are focussing on the wrong things.

Talk about emptying the mind is misleading IMO. You need to fill the mind with the right things. Once you have focused on the right things and got the body moving in a fashion that matches these thoughts. You can relax as all you re doing is repeating a movement (which you will remember) . All the other aspects have been worked out Pre shot.


Yesterday I went to the chipping green for an hour after my round. I was chipping with 20 balls from various locations. I know from experience if I take three practice swings rather than just standing up to the ball and swinging (which I do and many others when practising) I get a better result. It took a lot of discipline to make myself take 3 practice swings before each shot. All I am doing during the actual shot is repeating a swing(movement) that I think has a good chance of making it to the hole. All technical thoughts are gone by the time I am making the shot. Very little apart from length of swing and power is needed then.

On very difficult short game on the course I will take as many as I can to dial in this feeling. It helps if someone else is making a hash of their shot as it gives you more time.

 

[G_Mulligan]

I agree completely if you say you shouldn't be thinking about wrist hinge, body turn etc.


My technique doesn't mention anything about that. It focuses purely on trying to match an imagine in your head. Trying to get your body to react to this picture. Practice the stoke until its feels like it matches the picture. then simply step in and repeat this motion at the ball.

The whole time the brain is fully engaged. Focused solely on what you want the shot to do. If you are thinking about rotating chest and hinge for example you are focussing on the wrong things.

Talk about emptying the mind is misleading IMO. You need to fill the mind with the right things. Once you have focused on the right things and got the body moving in a fashion that matches these thoughts. You can relax as all you re doing is repeating a movement (which you will remember) . All the other aspects have been worked out Pre shot.


Yesterday I went to the chipping green for an hour after my round. I was chipping with 20 balls from various locations. I know from experience if I take three practice swings rather than just standing up to the ball and swinging (which I do and many others when practising) I get a better result. It took a lot of discipline to make myself take 3 practice swings before each shot. All I am doing during the actual shot is repeating a swing(movement) that I think has a good chance of making it to the hole. All technical thoughts are gone by the time I am making the shot. Very little apart from length of swing and power is needed then.

On very difficult short game on the course I will take as many as I can to dial in this feeling. It helps if someone else is making a hash of their shot as it gives you more time.

I am not arguing with you any more as I said previously do what you want.

 

[G_Mulligan]

This all seems to have taken the thread completely off track. I wasn't even intending to help people here and now but a few people asked so I gave it a shot.

Does anyone have any more mental problems that I may be able to make a few fault and fixes video clips to help them and others with similar issues.

This is what I would like to get the thread back to but I fear it may be too late.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

This is what I would like to get the thread back to but I fear it may be too late.

Golf is not easy or simple, what works for some will not work for others, as you stated if something works for you, crack on, please don't let previous posts put you off as some of the discussions you've had actually help with some of the doubts and cynicism.
I fully understand where Gary and others are saying as it's exactly what I do, however, your post have me intrigued and look forward to trying them out.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I agree completely if you say you shouldn't be thinking about wrist hinge, body turn etc.


My technique doesn't mention anything about that. It focuses purely on trying to match an imagine in your head. Trying to get your body to react to this picture. Practice the stoke until its feels like it matches the picture. then simply step in and repeat this motion at the ball.

The whole time the brain is fully engaged. Focused solely on what you want the shot to do. If you are thinking about rotating chest and hinge for example you are focussing on the wrong things.

Talk about emptying the mind is misleading IMO. You need to fill the mind with the right things. Once you have focused on the right things and got the body moving in a fashion that matches these thoughts. You can relax as all you re doing is repeating a movement (which you will remember) . All the other aspects have been worked out Pre shot.


Yesterday I went to the chipping green for an hour after my round. I was chipping with 20 balls from various locations. I know from experience if I take three practice swings rather than just standing up to the ball and swinging (which I do and many others when practising) I get a better result. It took a lot of discipline to make myself take 3 practice swings before each shot. All I am doing during the actual shot is repeating a swing(movement) that I think has a good chance of making it to the hole. All technical thoughts are gone by the time I am making the shot. Very little apart from length of swing and power is needed then.

On very difficult short game on the course I will take as many as I can to dial in this feeling. It helps if someone else is making a hash of their shot as it gives you more time.

Summed up well - keep things nice and simple , just concentrate on technique until pulling the trigger then just let your muscles do the rest.

You can't empty the mind IMO - it's impossible - you will always be thinking of something - only have to look at the pro's when they are getting ready , as soon as they have finished any practise swings , they are down into the shot and it's done. Then walk on to the next shot and play the next - it's a simple game mentally IMO with the techincal aspects at time being complex. Hit ball - walk - hit ball again - walk - repeat until all 18 holes are done.