Spirit of Golf debate

[Trueblue]

Ok just been having major debate/slightly heated arguement with some golf-playing mates in the office about the spirit of our sport:

I was playing a winter foursomes match play 2nd round match with my Dad against a local pair. My Dad left his sand iron on the practice green before we teed off, he didn't realise till the 5th hole and quite reasonably, we thought, he asked our opponents if they didn't mind he used my sandwedge rather than running back 5 holes on a busy Saturday morning to get his club (he has a fake hip but that is really besides the point!). One of our opponenets told us later that he wouldn't have minded because we weren't getting any advantage and there was no point sending my Dad back when we could just share. The other however, said, rather smugly, yes he could use it but then I would not be able to use it again and we had to settle for that.

Now i think this sums up all the bad bits about golf and it makes me sad for our game. How can we promote such a brilliant game to kids when such ludicrous rules exist and are then used as a tool by smug people? To me it goes against the idea, spirit and very essence of sport in its purest form. I am not suggesting you pick and choose rules to follow but in such circumstances, where clearly there is no advantage to be had, then why would any sane person not agree to such a course of action?

However, I am clearly in a minority in my office...!

What does anyone else think?

 

[MacMachattie]

First of all. Did you still win the match?

I agree totally that at club level when the game is supposed to be friendly there are certain rules that should not be enforced - this would be one of them. This basically just showed a total lack of sportsmanship. Yes the rules of golf are there for a reason but a bit of common sense now and again wouldn't go amiss. It would be the equivalent of you leaving a three footer on the front edge of the hole, swiping it up then the opponent saying. "I hadn't given that." Technically he would be in his rights to claim the hole but he'd have to be a complete twit to do it.

At the pro level and at top amateur level the rules have to be followed precisely because at the top end the smallest discrepancies can make all the difference but at handicap club level there should be exceptions.

 

[muttleee]

It would be the equivalent of you leaving a three footer on the front edge of the hole, swiping it up then the opponent saying. "I hadn't given that." Technically he would be in his rights to claim the hole but he'd have to be a complete twit to do it.

Any golfer who swiped his ball away in that manner without first checking that it had been given would also be a complete twit imho! What if it had been 6 inches away? A foot? When does it become ok to do that?

The problem with allowing some flexibility on seemingly strict rules is that that leaves room for inconsistency of interpretation to creep in. If you'd missed out on first place in a competition because you were a club short and had to put up with it and then you found that the winner had been in the same situation but had borrowed his partner's, you might feel a tad aggrieved. I know the stakes aren't the same for us as they are for the pros but still, we should all play by the same rules.

 

[MacMachattie]

In strokeplay yes. But not in matchplay when it's one on one (or two on two) and it's up to you to make the common sense judgement call. I thought the point True Blue was making referred to a matchplay scenario?

 

[Trueblue]

it did!

 

[Trueblue]

I have to say that MacMachattie's interpretation of this is exactly how I feel - it's a case of common sense and intelligence. No one is gaining an advantage (the rules say he could go back and get the club) it's just sensible and also compassionate!
Mutlee's 3-footer argument doesn't hold up for me really, everyone knows what a true gimmy is (when there is no doubt) and again common sense can prevail.

We did win the match by the way....by a mile!

 

[MacMachattie]

Good. Serves the belter right!

 

[golfdonkey]

Just thought I'd put my oar in. Of course there are situations where the sportsmanship becomes more important than following the letter of the law. As long as no one gains an unfair advantage by their actions, a bit of commonsense is in order. The only crime Trueblue's dad committed was to be a bit forgetful. Borrowing his son's sand wedge gives him absolutely no unfair advantage.
In tennis, strictly speaking, if your opponent has hung his woolly/cardigan/ jerkin on the netpost and you hit it during play you can claim the point. There's NO WAY, however important the match or prestigious the competition that I would claim the point in this situation. I would look a complete idiot and be seen as a bad sportsman.

 

[muttleee]

everyone knows what a true gimmy is (when there is no doubt)

OK then...what is a true gimme?

Don't forget, Hale Irwin missed a 2 inch putt in the 1983 Open..!

 

[Trueblue]

Yes but unlike Hale Irwin Mutlee we are talking about club competitions not the Open...! Let's stick to the point

 

[chipin1]

Without wanting to be seen as completely uncompromising - I think that Trueblue needs to be told about the importance of the rules. It seems as if NOBODY in your group new this particular rule - that's bad enough. But then Trueblue's father asked his opponents to waive the rules. That's shameful.

You can't just set your own agenda and follow which rules you think are fair and which aren't. If we all did that there would be no competitive golf to speak of. For example, I think it's a bit ridiculous that if a bunker is filled with water the rules force me to drop my ball out of the bunker under a penalty of one shot. That seems unfair to me, so I might just miss that penalty shot out.

When playing in a comp you need to abide by the rules - simple as that. If you don't you get disqualified (there needn't be an implication here that you cheated).

Trueblue also seems to think that these rules give golf a bad image but that's also wrong. Remember David Toms calling a penalty on himself in the Open because his ball moved. He gained no advantage from this but the rule was broken. He DQ'd himself off his own back. That was sportsmanship of the highest order - the like of which you'd see in no other sport. If this isn't sport in it's purest form then what is... certainly not football, cricket, rugby (where pushing the rules to the limit (and beyond) is commonplace).

Once you start waiving the rules because they seem 'ludicrous', you enter very dangerous territory. Let the R&A and USGA decide what's fair and then play by that. As long as we all follow their guidelines, the game that we all enjoy so much will remain safe from the undermining power of cheats.

Here endeth the lesson.

 

[PaulOHagan]

What are you talking about true blue!?

As small and insignificant as this rule may be, and although you may disagree with the rule, it still remains a rule of golf and as a result should be respected.

You can't say because it's a club event that the rule can be waved-it’s still a competitive competition and you should respected along with any one else who entered. If you’re having a friendly game with your mates take as many wedges as you want but while playing competitive golf you should play by the rules. How do you decide what events are important enough follow rules and what events it is ok to make it up as you go along?

I hope you never get a job with the R&A or the government true blue- imagine the anarchy!!

 

[Shooter_McGavin]

A sport without rules becomes a hobby- like gardening or yoga! I know none of us want golf to turn into a dull uncompetitive pass time. As much as we enjoy every aspect of golf we all play it to compete in some way shape or form, with out the rules, no matter how small, this great game would not exist in its true form.

Regardless of the response from your opponents I don't think any golfer should ever ask there opponents to let them bend the rules. This is bad sportsmanship not the response you received after asking.

 

[swingstar1]

surely if trueblue's old man didn't know it was against the rules to borrow then he can't be accused of being unsporting to have asked in the first place?

however if once he'd been informed that it was against the rules he had continued to ask then fair enough he'd have been a bit of chancer

what no one is really discussing here is the manner in which the opponent informed trueblue and his dad of the rule - not only was he wrong with his ruling - but sounds like he did it in the irritating way people do when they can't wait to put people straight on something. unfortunately golf does rather tend to attract people like that

if he had been sympathetic to the situation - ie "this is the rule but its a bit daft isn't it" then I'm sure the situation would't have blown up

 

[furyk_or_unique]

Was going to stick my oar in here big time, but Chipin1, Paul09 and Shooter McGavin have said all that needs to be said really. However I think I still will...

I'm sure Mark Roe thought it just a tad unfair to be disqualified while in contention at the Open a few years back just because he wrote something on the wrong bit of cardboard - but I don't recall hearing an interview between him the R&A's Peter Dawson starting with the words "I know I've been a bit silly but couldn't you just turn a blind eye. I really want to play tomorrow!"

And then a few months ago I played in a Medal at my club with a friend. On reaching our first green (the 10th) he realised he didn't have his putter. But did he ask me as a mate if he could borrow mine? Oh, no. He knew what the rules were, putted with his utility for four holes and then collected his putter from his car halfway down the 14th which passes nearby.

It would appear Trueblue is trying to paraphrase George Orwell: "All rules are created equal, but some rules are more equal than others!"

 

[muttleee]

Yes but unlike Hale Irwin Mutlee we are talking about club competitions not the Open...! Let's stick to the point

What difference does it make what competition it is? Whether it's the monthly medal or the Open Championship, the same rules are there to be obeyed by everyone. That's one of the great things about golf!

 

[MacMachattie]

I think the people on either side of this debate are arguing for different things.

Mutlee, Chipin1, Paul09 and all the others who disagree with True Blue: Read this properly. It is totally unacceptable to break or bend any of golf's rules when you are playing in a strokeplay competition, no matter how silly or trifling. To do that is cheating, you will have gained an unfair advantage over the whole field. I don't think True Blue or any other serious golfer would disagree with that. In the monthly medal it would not be acceptable for someone to borrow a playing partner's club. They've made a mistake and must accept the punishment, 150 other guys competing would not be happy if they were aware someone was out there flouting the rules, and rightly so.

However, what this argument was actually about was: "The spirit of golf." It was about a club knockout event Trueblue was playing against two fellow members. The point is: In that instance there was an opportunity for the participants to agree, on a common sense basis, that a rule could be overlooked. They should have done this for the "spirit of the game." Nobody outside this fourball would have been affected by such a piece of courtesy and sportsmanship.

In a club knockout earlier this year the guy I was playing picked his ball up on the green two feet from the cup. He hadn't realised he had a shot and the putt was for a half. I told him to replace the ball and have a go at holing it. He did. I went on to win the game but we were able to enjoy a friendly drink in the bar afterwards and have remained friends since then. Would we still be on such amiable terms had I said, "bad luck, my hole - those are the rules and if you don't like it, lump it."

There is a massive difference between strokeplay and matchplay competitions and that is what those arguing against True Blue are failing to recognise. Come on boys.

 

[muttleee]

I know what you mean about the spirit of the game but the rules specifically forbid the waiving of any rule or penalty, even in a matchplay situation. Rule 1-3 says:

"Players must not agree to exclude the operation of any Rule or to waive any penalty incurred."

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 1-3:
Match play - Disqualification of both sides;
Stroke play - Disqualification of competitors concerned.

You may think it's draconian but that's the rule. If someone else had seen you letting your opponent retake a shot, in theory you could both have been disqualified and you wouldn't have had a proverbial leg to stand on.

I don't see any reason why you wouldn't still be friends with that guy if you hadn't allowed him to take the putt after lifting his ball. It's not as if he would have expected to be allowed to do that so he could hardly complain if he'd had to live with the consequences of his own mistake. What sort of man would he be if he had got mad because you wouldn't bend the rules for his benefit? Btw, when claiming a hole, it's never advisable to say "If you don't like it, lump it". ;-)

 

[muttleee]

everyone knows what a true gimmy is (when there is no doubt)

I'm still waiting for the official definition of what a "true gimme" is!

 

[peter_constant]

Nobody outside this fourball would have been affected by such a piece of courtesy and sportsmanship.

I agree with this sentiment but can i ask how trueblue and his dad would have felt had they gone all the way in the competition and won it knowing they had broken the rules even if they didn't do it intentionally and only found out about the transgression retrospectively (ie here)