Some pointers to see me through the winter..

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fripnchips

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Hello all.

So after a fairly successful summer getting out and playing the guy i was using for lessons has decided to move on to other things. So until i decide who to get lessons from can anyone give me some pointers on my swing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_4hfrZyezY

I have a slight fade on most shots but am ironing this out in my lessons by stopping the movement in my left leg as much which is seeing fairly good results. I also have a drill to work on each time i address the ball.
The main struggle with the fade is with my woods (these are all old and off the shelf with Regular graphite shafts if that helps?).

Any help would be appreciated so i have something to work on at the range.
Cheers
Phil
 

bobmac

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If you want to get rid of your fade you will have to change the direction of the path of your club into impact.
If you watch your swing closely, it goes up in one direction and comes down in a different one with a loop at the top.
Try my headvover drill to help get the feel of the club coming down on a better path. The idea is to miss the headcovers.
A slight pause at the top of the backswing will help

[video=youtube;KsrovFJ3o9I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsrovFJ3o9I&index=33&list=PL7Uf2W3sfvqYBJ3OUldKvQT7ZWYEmPOyW[/video]
 

the_coach

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as 'bobmac' has eluded to (his drill a good one to try to change the path direction which you will need to do to get better contact & direction), the club goes back inside up to the top (big overswing) then comes down out to in through the ball.

at the current top position from there it's only really ever going to do one thing coming down, the first move is out over the top, so your swinging from out to in, through impact swinging leftwards in direction.

also coming down steep & over means the angles right arm/hand get lost early on from the top so the radius of the swing extends so you have to then stand up some into & through impact to avoid hitting the ground before ball.

the club you have down on the ground can help you if you use it to check where you are going back. if you pause the slowmo when the club is first horizontal to the ground you'll see it's pointing a ways inside the line here, when you ideally would have both shafts parallel aligned here.

it then carries on inside so left arm when horizontal pointing inside the shaft on the ground a ways too, so your hands moving to a position behind your back line (incidentally this left arm position/angle you got going back is a good position/angle of the left arm you'd want to look to achieve in the downswing to impact)

given the ways the arms/club have gone back, when you cannot turn the body anymore, you can see how the hands/arms/club are carrying on going independently of the turn, so end up with a big overswing, club pointing down at the ground behind you & across the ball/target line.

this has disconnected the hands/arms/club movement from the body pivot, so very difficult from here to get the connection/timing back.
from the top you then see a big outwards movement hands/arms/club & right shoulder.

as well as being outwards this also because of the direction it now has to swing in to get club on ball makes the swing a ways steep.

pause the slowmo a few frames from the top you'll see just how steep the shaft angle is - not far from vertical - coming down bisecting through your neck/head, this steepness plus loss of right arm/hand angle ('lag') means you've got to stand up to get the club to ball.

hard to see from this angle, think you would be best to get the grip checked out, applies to both hands but particularly the right. also hard to see from this angle but ball looks as if it could well be a little to far forwards in the stance.

left leg movement definitely not helping here, breaking out a ways to far towards ball/target line - lot of daylight between the legs.
want to feel the legs are a lot more solid, only moved when the body turn makes the hips turn then the legs move.
that ways you don't get too loose with the left leg & also able to keep the weight going back on the inside of the right foot, so some flex is retained in the right leg, rather than it straightening & virtually locking out.

only way to correct this really (obviously lessons the way to go) is doing some 'move to position work' so you swing back slow to club first horizontal & check the shaft is parallel to the one on the ground.
this to get the club going back on a straighter line for the first 12" then when the left hand sets upwards on a slightly steeper plane.

then once that's there, swing back to left arm first horizontal to the ground & also nearer to parallel the club on the ground, so your hands & handle at this point would be center of chest opposite your sternum. so the club & arms are more 'infront' of your body turn going back which helps you both on the plane & also the connection between arms & turn.

from there to complete the backswing it's just a turn of the shoulders to the top.
important that when your body pivot stops your hands/arms/club should stop too. so keeping the connection & swing stopping just short of parallel - ideally.

then you feel atop swing, the back stays looking at target a 'beat' while you press gently into the ground with your left foot, then the right shoulder/arms/club first move is downwards to the ground not outwards to the ball, head stays behind the ball as you feel you swing you hands/arms past your chin, aiming to contact the ball on the 'inside' back quarter feeling the swing is going out through impact a little towards rightfield.

when your trying to make changes all swings should be at around 50/60% that ways you have more chance of being aware of the differences in movement & positions, you'll never successfully change anything swinging at your normal speed you'll just go back at that speed to what you've been used to doing.

position work with the club on the ground, part swings to stop & check where you are, avoidance swings with something to make you swing in a certain direction in order to avoid 'bobmacs" headcovers (you can use upturned range baskets) are good but swing slowly to get used to the path difference.
plus lots of slowmo work. mirrors help, or shoot it on cell. but change has to be rigorously monitored someway, you won't do it with just feel alone.

have a look at the next few vids, if you can get the drift of them should help you.
 

the_coach

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if you imagine taking his analogy to the top of the swing, you'd be feeling you'd be throwing the balls out at top over the right shoulder.

so once you get into the good position he shows where he stops with the 'balls' still in the basket, when that left arm is first horizontal to ground, notice how his left arm would be parallel pretty much to a club on the ground as you had in your vid.

from this left arm position also notice when he does it with the club his hands/club handle are very much opposite the center of his chest, so everything arms/club to body turn is connected together, form here as said in my first reply it's just a matter of completing the turn with everything stopping atop at the same time, so much better connected position atop on a good plane ready to turn downwards & swing down & through a little ways from the inside to that back inside quarter of the ball.

[video=youtube_share;FS0LYlznU5w]http://youtu.be/FS0LYlznU5w[/video]
 
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fripnchips

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Wow. Really appreciate all the detail coach. Will definitely look at those and properly go through it all as at first read theres alot to take in. Will let you know how i get on

On another note the guy who was giving me lessons is a friends dad who has offered to help me even though he's not doing it anymore. I sent him the video and he was mortified as 'Your swing is so much nicer than that whats happened? Don't worry we can sort it'
 

garyinderry

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If you want to get rid of your fade you will have to change the direction of the path of your club into impact.
If you watch your swing closely, it goes up in one direction and comes down in a different one with a loop at the top.
Try my headvover drill to help get the feel of the club coming down on a better path. The idea is to miss the headcovers.
A slight pause at the top of the backswing will help

[video=youtube;KsrovFJ3o9I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsrovFJ3o9I&index=33&list=PL7Uf2W3sfvqYBJ3OUldKvQT7ZWYEmPOyW[/video]
You make that look easy bob! :thup: smoking them drives!
 

HomerJSimpson

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Wow. Really appreciate all the detail coach. Will definitely look at those and properly go through it all as at first read theres alot to take in. Will let you know how i get on

On another note the guy who was giving me lessons is a friends dad who has offered to help me even though he's not doing it anymore. I sent him the video and he was mortified as 'Your swing is so much nicer than that whats happened? Don't worry we can sort it'
If you want a good teaching pro as well I'd recommend Rhys ap Iolo at Downshire.
 
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fripnchips

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Ok went over all the info again from thecoach. Thanks again alot to work on but thats what winter is for right? It would appear that loop comes from me trying to hit too hard something I use to do alot so slowing down seems to help. But will work on all the above.

@Homer thanks i will have a chat with him next time i am up there.
 

bobmac

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You make that look easy bob! :thup: smoking them drives!
Not bad for an old man. I think one of them went over 200yds too :)

Ok went over all the info again from thecoach. Thanks again alot to work on but thats what winter is for right?
In my opinion trying to work on too many things will be difficult.
I would suggest you work on improving your out to in swing, after all, that's mainly what causes your slices/pulls.
Get a straight swing path and you will stand a great chance of hitting a straight ball.
And believe me, that process will take up most of the winter.
 
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fripnchips

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Apologies Bobmac. I didn't thank you for your input.

It appears slowing myself down helps considerably with your drill and appears to negate the loop at the top and everything looks and feels more consistant (on the range atleast). It's something i have often done trying to hit too hard (short man syndrome i guess) where everything i know goes out the window.

Will try and film my slower/natural/unforced swing this week.
 

bobmac

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I try and avoid using the word slow when teaching, I'd rather you thought of your swing being smoother rather than slower.
The reason being while you may swing slower on the range, when you get out on the course, the fast swing and slice returns almost without fail.
Just try and relax everything and keep the takeaway and the transition at the top smooth and you should be able to take that onto the course.
A smooth straight swing will hit it further than a wild slash and slice.
 
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fripnchips

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Thanks Bob. I see your point and it was just a way of describing it. Trying to welly it appears to be something that doesn't happens often usually for example a round with my dad it generally doesn't however playing alongside my uncle (big ex rugby player with a decent drive on him and very competitive) it will happen on the 'driving' holes also when videoing.
I know my best swing is when i try to be 'smooth' and when i have this working the fade is minimal. But can only see positives from your drill to make this more consistant.
 
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