So wearing a Poppy is Political !

[garyinderry]

It is political, world war one was political, if FIFA have said they don't want political badges or slogans of any kind on international teams shirts than should we not stick by those rules? If FIFA dont object it does set a precedent, opens the doors for other current or historical political issues to be worn on shirts by any other member country of FIFA. The UK needs to realise it is not more important than everyone else and if you're part of a 200 or whatever country governing body you tow the line.

This sums it up well for me.

 

[Sweep]

When a leading figure in football dies and everyone pauses before the game for a minutes silence, is it political?
No.
So why is wearing the poppy political?
They are both acts of remembrance.

 

[Val]

Poppies aren't political but they should be optional. Footballers, TV presenters etc all appear to be forced to wear them and I believe this is wrong.

I wear one only on Remembrance Sunday at my local parade and also on armistice day itself.

 

[backwoodsman]

Ah, the tyranny of the poppy rises again.

My own, entirely non statistical, observation is that the majority of people don't wear poppies. As i go about normal life, either in the run up to Remembrance Sunday, or on the day, l don't see that many people wearing them. That is their choice. And the proportion of people who choose to wear or not wear I'd expect to be broadly representative.

So put any bunch of people in a uniform, and chances are that a majority of them would not choose to wear a poppy. Ergo putting a poppy on the uniform is wrong. It is wrong to take away the voluntary choice to wear the symbol of the poppy, and by doing so it demeans the value of the poppy itself. A poppy worn by eiher requirement or through indifference has no meaning. Poppies should not be on uniforms - and a football strip is no less a uniform.

The FA and SFA are wrong to want it on a strip.

 

[Sweep]

Ah, the tyranny of the poppy rises again.

My own, entirely non statistical, observation is that the majority of people don't wear poppies. As i go about normal life, either in the run up to Remembrance Sunday, or on the day, l don't see that many people wearing them. That is their choice. And the proportion of people who choose to wear or not wear I'd expect to be broadly representative.

So put any bunch of people in a uniform, and chances are that a majority of them would not choose to wear a poppy. Ergo putting a poppy on the uniform is wrong. It is wrong to take away the voluntary choice to wear the symbol of the poppy, and by doing so it demeans the value of the poppy itself. A poppy worn by eiher requirement or through indifference has no meaning. Poppies should not be on uniforms - and a football strip is no less a uniform.

The FA and SFA are wrong to want it on a strip.

Unless the player has the option?
I can't see many players objecting to wearing it, apart from James McLean who certainly won't be playing for England - though apparently he does like the wages our league pays, but that's a different issue.
For the life of me I can't see why anyone would object to wearing a poppy

 

[Crazyface]

What did you want her to do? Fly over to Switzerland and kick Gianni Infantino in the balls? It's hard to make the point that the Poppy isn't political when you've got Parliament discussing it all day...

She should have said that it was nothing to do with FIFA or anyone else what we wear on our shirts. If we want to do it then we damn well shall. Who cares if they deduct points? We'll get there anyway. If they fine us we'll refuse to play. Again who cares. England couldn't win at playing for England.

 

[bluewolf]

Unless the player has the option?
I can't see many players objecting to wearing it, apart from James McLean who certainly won't be playing for England - though apparently he does like the wages our league pays, but that's a different issue.
For the life of me I can't see why anyone would object to wearing a poppy

Why is James Maclean playing in England an issue at all? You're sailing dangerously close to claiming that the wearing of the Poppy should be mandatory.

 

[Val]

Why is James Maclean playing in England an issue at all? You're sailing dangerously close to claiming that the wearing of the Poppy should be mandatory.

James McLean should be free to choose whether he wears one or not, the same with any footballer from any nation playing in the UK.

 

[bluewolf]

James McLean should be free to choose whether he wears one or not, the same with any footballer from any nation playing in the UK.

Exactly right mate. I'm beginning to worry that the Poppy will be turned into such a divisive symbol that it will lose its potency.

 

[Val]

Exactly right mate. I'm beginning to worry that the Poppy will be turned into such a divisive symbol that it will lose its potency.

100% agree Dan. The last 5-10 years or so have become ridiculous with the wearing or non wearing of the poppy. It's all well supporting the fallen etc and what they did for us in terms of how we live and what the did to ensure we had FREE SPEECH seems to be forgotten at some points.

Some football clubs put on a tremendous show of support for the forces (thinking Rangers) but it is getting to the stage many use this as a point scoring exercise with their rivals who support the poppy appeal privately due to an idiot element of their support (Celtic). This is all wrong and is not what the poppy appeal is about at all but I can't help but feel football associations have helped create this.

Im not anti poppy wearing, far from it. I'll be in the minority on the forum in that I attend a service and parade on Remeberence Sunday but I believe everyone should have the choice and it shouldn't be forced. I wouldn't be surrprised if all TV presenters have it put on them whether they like it or not.

 

[bluewolf]

100% agree Dan. The last 5-10 years or so have become ridiculous with the wearing or non wearing of the poppy. It's all well supporting the fallen etc and what they did for us in terms of how we live and what the did to ensure we had FREE SPEECH seems to be forgotten at some points.

Some football clubs put on a tremendous show of support for the forces (thinking Rangers) but it is getting to the stage many use this as a point scoring exercise with their rivals who support the poppy appeal privately due to an idiot element of their support (Celtic). This is all wrong and is not what the poppy appeal is about at all but I can't help but feel football associations have helped create this.

Im not anti poppy wearing, far from it. I'll be in the minority on the forum in that I attend a service and parade on Remeberence Sunday but I believe everyone should have the choice and it shouldn't be forced. I wouldn't be surrprised if all TV presenters have it put on them whether they like it or not.

I'll be at the Village memorial mate. I lost an old school friend in Iraq, as well as several relatives in WW1 & 2. I usually skip the Church service as I'm not a believer, but I will always remember and be grateful. I don't need a poppy to do that, but it's a nice way to show that we appreciate the sacrifice. However, the second that the Poppy becomes a method of distinguishing just how "British" we think people are then I'll stop wearing one and I'll just carry on remembering in my own way. If that's a problem to some then they can feel free to explain that to my face.

 

[backwoodsman]

Unless the player has the option?
I can't see many players objecting to wearing it, apart from James McLean who certainly won't be playing for England - though apparently he does like the wages our league pays, but that's a different issue.
For the life of me I can't see why anyone would object to wearing a poppy

Ah but, it is not a question of whether they object to wearing it. Poppies are all about making a deliberate choice to wear one - not about "not objecting" That's just plain indifference, which renders the wearing meaningless. And the principle about whether it should be on a uniform or a piece of kit is that it is wrong to put someone in the position of having to make a public choice. No one should be in the position of having to publicly display a private opinion just because they are performing a particular task of some kind. Making someone in the public eye choose, automatically renders their choice public.

And in any case - is football strip an appropriate place for a poppy? After all, for the 90 minutes its worn, not one of the 22 players will be giving the slightest hoot about remembrance.

 

[Sweep]

Why is James Maclean playing in England an issue at all? You're sailing dangerously close to claiming that the wearing of the Poppy should be mandatory.

Where did I say wearing a poppy should be mandatory? I said the exact opposite. I said I would not have thought anyone would object, except McLean for well documented reasons.

 

[bluewolf]

Where did I say wearing a poppy should be mandatory? I said the exact opposite. I said I would not have thought anyone would object, except McLean for well documented reasons.

Your reply certainly hinted at an issue with Maclean's decision.

 

[Sweep]

Ah but, it is not a question of whether they object to wearing it. Poppies are all about making a deliberate choice to wear one - not about "not objecting" That's just plain indifference, which renders the wearing meaningless. And the principle about whether it should be on a uniform or a piece of kit is that it is wrong to put someone in the position of having to make a public choice. No one should be in the position of having to publicly display a private opinion just because they are performing a particular task of some kind. Making someone in the public eye choose, automatically renders their choice public.

And in any case - is football strip an appropriate place for a poppy? After all, for the 90 minutes its worn, not one of the 22 players will be giving the slightest hoot about remembrance.

Well they should give a hoot. TBH this entire row shows up the sport for how trivial it is. Football is a game. War, death and sacrifice are entirely different.
If shirts are made available both with and without poppies the players can choose. I don't care if a player chooses not to wear a poppy but yes, I would respect them less.
Its a tiny, tiny show of respect for those who died for us. The players are playing for England - not fighting for England - but they are representing us nonetheless.
its simply an act of remembrance, Lest We Forget. Is it really too much to ask?

 

[Sweep]

Your reply certainly hinted at an issue with Maclean's decision.

Then your interpretation is wrong. Perhaps you should read my reply again.

 

[Val]

Then your interpretation is wrong. Perhaps you should read my reply again.

You hinted it was another issue McLean being happy to take the leagues money. In reality he takes the club who are happy to have him as an employees money.

 

[bluewolf]

Then your interpretation is wrong. Perhaps you should read my reply again.

I can't see many players objecting to wearing it, apart from James McLean who certainly won't be playing for England - though apparently he does like the wages our league pays, but that's a different issue.

So it's a different issue, but it's not an issue. I may not be the brightest bulb in the ceiling, but I'm struggling to see where I've misinterpreted your comment.

 

[NWJocko]

The whole situation now is very unsavoury imo for what is supposed to be a meaningful symbol of rememberance. If the poppy wasn't a political symbol previously it is very quickly turning into one with all the bickering which does nobody any credit.

The football teams could exchange poppy wreaths before the match if they are so keen to enagage in a public act of rememberance (only an example). Sign and auction the shirts as before, hell the players could donate their match fee (or a days salary) to the RBL if it means so much to them or the FA's.

As others have said, we are in danger of reaching the point where anyone not wearing a poppy for a couple of weeks whatever they are doing is frowned upon, people shouldn't have to wear one just be seen to be wearing one as it diminishes the meaning IMO.

 

[backwoodsman]

Well they should give a hoot. TBH this entire row shows up the sport for how trivial it is. Football is a game. War, death and sacrifice are entirely different.
If shirts are made available both with and without poppies the players can choose. I don't care if a player chooses not to wear a poppy but yes, I would respect them less.
Its a tiny, tiny show of respect for those who died for us. The players are playing for England - not fighting for England - but they are representing us nonetheless.
its simply an act of remembrance, Lest We Forget. Is it really too much to ask?

I expect many of them will give a hoot before the match and after. But during the 90 minutes of the game they won't give it the slightest thought. Nor would you I expect..

But I fear you miss my point. Choosing whether or not to wear a poppy is an entirely voluntary choice. As soon as you are made to choose by a third party, then it is no longer a voluntary choice and you take away the persons right to keep their own view to themselves.. I wear mine when and where of my own choosing - but if and when someone tells me I should be wearing one then they are merely imposing their morals on me - and I'm likely to tell them where to stick theirs.

That's me out now ...